Episode 207 | February 11, 2020

Unlock Your Potential to Heal and Transform with Donny Epstein

A Personal Note From Orion

My guest today is an exceptional human being. He’s one of the most extraordinary healers on the planet. What he does in real life looks like something out of a Harry Potter movie. Really, it’s incredible. Donny Epstein is the founder of EpiEnergetics and the creator of Network Spinal Analysis. He’s an energy healer who helped so many people, including me, my husband, and Tony Robbins.

Donny started out as a chiropractor and created his own healing modality. He’s an author, speaker, and healer who shares his new knowledge about energy and focus, and how to have the most significant impact on the world. Donny is a unique human being and a real-life wizard. My experience with Donny was nothing short of extraordinary.

It’s tough to explain getting entrained by Donny because it’s like trying to explain the flavor of the best ice cream you’ve ever tasted to someone who never ate it. I am a better partner, coach, and leader because I was privileged enough to work with him. He says that unless you claim the extraordinary, ordinary claims you. So welcome to existing on a whole new level, my friend. On to the show!


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About Today’s Show

Hi, Donny, and welcome to the Stellar Life podcast. It’s an honor and a big pleasure having you here. I am so excited to be talking to you today.

Orion, I am so excited to be speaking to you and it’s stellar to be with you.

It’s very hard to explain you, so before you start, why don’t you share a little bit about yourself?

Okay, I’m a dude.

You’re a wizard.

I’m called a wizard, a thought leader, an innovator. What I am and I really do is someone who translates between dimensions, who’s able to go between the seen, the unseen, the visible, invisible, and actually make manifest for individuals in physical strategies and living strategies what before was unavailable and invisible. I look for unreasonable results in life.

My clinical practice was as a chiropractor with the original intention and the concept, which still carries of what my life is about, is as a vibrational wisdom universe and is transmitted to the nervous system. The original intention of that profession and concept is if you stretch the neuro skeleton, you alter the vibration of nerves, therefore, like a musical instrument or string, its vibration is altered, the universal wisdom that organizes them, the universal perfection cannot express self effectively and that nerve will produce modified form, modified tone of music which shows up as altered health at all different levels.

The original concept, I developed practices doing that. We expanded the model of healing in the 1980s before Deepak Chopra was popular, before body-mind connect is so popular, and extended the concept of healing to be included to physical, emotional, social, and spiritual, interaction in the world, and your life enjoyment. We conduct the largest retrospective study in 1995, University of California Irvine, of people in care in the form of network, what’s called Network Chiropractic at that time. It’s then become Network Spinal Analysis, that’s only one of the many disciplines, but that’s the basis from which many people have known me.

In that study, we asked people, “How are you doing now as compared to before? Physical, emotional, mental, stress, quality of life, ability to make healthy choices, and spiritual findings?” Which we had called life enjoyment because that wouldn’t get published if we called it spiritual. Because ultimate spirituality is that life could be a bliss no matter what, it could be a blessing no matter what, and life enjoyment is really a measure of that.

We did that study, we got off the scale results, and in 1987, I was able to produce a wave for people. It started out as a conscious wave for people, now it’s called Kundalini. I had no idea what it was but I knew how to produce the wave and you’ve experienced that wave.

Unless you claim the extraordinary, ordinary claims you. Click To Tweet

Oh, yeah.

Millions out there on all seven continents, even Antarctica. That particular wave has been studied for over 30 years. Fourteen universities have studied the wave for its unique properties. And later, the person’s term evolution of the nervous system, upgrading the coherence from a more scientific and new-age concept, quantum entangled between one part and the other when the response as one. The space between people influences it. We’re talking with high-end spirituality meets high-end science and high-end pragmatism. That’s the best way to put it there.

People get a Master’s and Ph.D. in studying this wave in populations. Not just what I did but what other people did with people. They took electrodes up and down the spine and said, “What’s going on with this wave?” It started as pure consciousness because people had spiritual awakenings. What brought us to research is that as the LA Times, Atlanta Journal Constitution, Toronto Star, and all different publications are doing feature articles about this form of healing with people having magical changes. The spine was spontaneously arranging, they’re having life changes which, at that time, the regulatory board started challenging because the chiropractic profession at the time was moving into being more accepted as part of the allopathic model for a specific area of back pain, which is never the intention.

We were ruffling the feathers of that union, so to speak, like unholy union, so to speak. It led to research and said, “What are we really doing? What’s true or real?” After 30 years, they found that this wave, as it goes to this system, the body, carries more bandwidth and more information. Now, this is important to know, these were out now, and I’m regressing from where it came from.

Everything is energy information. If you have information without energy, it disappears. If you don’t put energy into a relationship with the information, the relationship is gone, in your body and in your finances.

Probably, in your life, you have been with men with great potential but no energy to do anything, correct? The potential, the feminine exceeds the potential. What happens is it’s just not having anything to do with it. If you take a piece of wood and light a match to it, the match is the external source of energy. A little spark of that is enough to have the energy come out of the wood and the information we call wood, it’s data, our brain interprets that as wood, the data called wood could no longer exist, it becomes ash. Even with your health, the organs in your body, your relationship, your finances, whatever you can focus your attention upon when energy comes out of that, it drops and it collapses.

We’ll get back to that. Now, let me go back to studying this. They found that as information, as this carrier wave went through the spine, people arched up in yoga postures never having taken yoga, some people started seeing chance outside their own religion. It started happening because we are all one. The idea was they wanted to study what is this wave. They found out that it is unique for each individual. Everyone has a signature wave.

As it goes through the spine and the body moves with the wave, just like in yoga. Yoga masters got into a certain position because the energy and information bandwidth forced them to go into that position where their chest rose up, their head broke back. You’ll never see somebody with a head back, the chest up, arms out, ever saying, “I feel so sick. I hate my life.” You’ll never see that. The body goes into different posture because every position, posture, shape, tension of the spine in the body is in relationship to the posture, shape, tension, and tone in your life. It’s all one system.

What happens is now people got enlightened. People figured, “If I assume those same exercises, I’ll be enlightened.” But with a thousand series of yoga, how many people do you know or like? Not the yoga, that is really great, but the intention now is to exercise. Maybe the whole purpose of the modern yoga movement is to keep Lululemon in business. The idea itself was spiritual waking what happened naturally.

This is the mistake people make. You will never understand spirituality. You’ll never understand love. You’ll never understand another person, you must experience them. Ordinary experience leads to ordinary living. Only extraordinary experiencing leads to extraordinary living. An extraordinary experience and understanding your energetic nature, that guarantees an extraordinary life.

Keep your heart open for all the possibilities and abundance that the world is ready to give you.

The question I ask for all of you listeners sharing time with me is, what is your tolerance for extraordinary? I could promise you, you’ll have one area of your life that may be extraordinary above everything else. Maybe in a relationship but not the business. It may be finances and not your career.

Extraordinary is a different calling. It requires spiritual energy. It requires a greater degree of instability in your life with a bigger vision. Let me go back to the wave. The human gait is the way we walk. We walk, we have a gait. It’s the way we look, we wiggle, we shake, whatever we do. In the mathematical study, the signal is going up in the spine with the gait. Everyone’s gait is unique. It’s associated with circuitry embedded in the spine that controls all your movements around your fingerprint or your actual wave print of how it moves in your body.

If you injure yourself, you had a stroke, you drag your leg, you get a prosthetic leg, it would look like you’re walking so differently, but today’s modern computer systems, if you were in the database, would say this is you. That’s why in the movies, somebody can take your fingerprint on a piece of wax and they get it into a computer or they could take an artificial lens or a contact lens that has the imprint of your retina and they get into the computer system. But you can’t fake a process. It’s a biological rhythm.

If somebody can decode that, that will be the best security the government ever had.

We actually started studying this Homeland Security visit at the University of Southern California where the researchers were. We found out that this is it, if you injure yourself or had a stroke, there will be a set on a period and then the system would learn, responses will learn and those modem neurons in the spinal cord would readjust the gait to be an algorithm that’s only your signature. Now my whole path of life, my biggest passion since as a child is, how do we see? How do we hear? How do I look this way to me? Why is this?

But you were a very special child. You weren’t an ordinary child.

No, I wasn’t. We’ll get back to that in a few moments. I wanted to know how the spirit makes matter. I assumed when I was a teenager that each of us had a singular beacon, a light, a sound that we put out to the universe. It was unique for us in our entire incarnation. It had a force of attraction to line us up with everyone we need to meet, to line us up in life, and to manifest the greatest fruit we meant to bring to the world, so to speak, the greatest achievement. My life path is how do we access that? How do we find that? How do we find your soul signature? How do you live consistent with it? Because I could promise you, it’ll be different than your living.

Now, we come to the wave in the network care, spinal care. They found that the network wave that went through was listed in 2011 and several journals after until recently, definitively, is the second known central pattern generator is the spine. The first one is the human gait. The second one is this. As it moves through, what does it do? It appears to suspend signals, learning processes, patterns, conditioned responses, thinks the motive strategies. Muscle, which is the sense of self, is a series of muscle strategies. If you’re really stoned, if you’re really in an awakened state, if you’re asleep, you have to build tension up to find a person to keep and think because motive strategies are necessary to define your posture or your sense of self. The wave seems to eliminate or suspend all the unauthentic conditioning we have on our unique soul signature.

As it does that, then certain vertebra rock very subtly and that rocking the vertebra then boots up or upgrades you to a higher order, so you no longer function at the level. Basically, what we have is a path to upgrading a human operating system. You upgrade your phones, your other devices regularly, but the human operating system deals with more bits of information per second in one day than your parents had in a year, more than others had in centuries. But the operating system helps us observe the world, to react to the world, to dream, to hope, to create, to experience, that has not been upgraded in centuries.

My role in the world is to actually help find a way to actually upgrade human operating systems so we can actually be at the point poised to the position of the greatest change in human history which is upon us. We’ll be able to use energy and information differently. The way we see the world will be different. We don’t have to be wounded to get the gifts. We don’t have to bind energy to ourselves. Abundance and prosperity will be what value we add to others. The greatest shift in humanity that affects and we’re at the point of having either the greatest Dark Age or the greatest Renaissance. Each of us were involved in this. Now, you asked about childhood.

I’m very curious because you’re not an ordinary human being. Are you human? You’re very special. Seeing is believing, but it’s mostly experiencing that is believing. 

Experience changes you, and I have strong experiences.

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As somebody that experienced that firsthand, I’m like, “Ah, this is the best experience ever.”

That video film, The Gate, we’re up to about 7000–8000 people in the past 30 years. Those events highlight the healing methods, but not to heal, to help you be educated as an educational process, to the experience of the forces that heal, the same forces that organize your life. It’s so essential, in this video called Presence was filmed by Topaz. Topaz won the Emmy Award for a short documentary film. After he won that award, the next thing he did was to actually film an event that we had. It’s a short documentary. It doesn’t explain the work but just lets you get into the experience of this. That’s one of many other technologies to create change.

As a child, from the time I was 4½ years old (I was told) I was having atypical petit mal seizures. That means that I’ll just be sitting there or standing and it’s like I zoned out then and there. I would have sensations before. I’d see colors, flashing lights, or what I now see mathematical equations or things. I hear tones or pitches. They diagnosed it as atypical petit mal epilepsy. It was visual, auditory, and kinesthetic prodromal signs, like a migraine person may have a certain sound or sight they may see, a light they may see.

They also said it also sustained itself with what they said visual and auditory, like hallucinations. The way my normal seeing (and please I don’t want to romanticize this for people) will help establish me on the path or journey we have. My normal seeing is not what you see in the physical universe. I learned to do that. I do that, but my normal natural seeing was basically from the fabric between consciousness and the body. It’s before you have a thought, before energy information is crystallized as a thought or an idea, before it becomes a living cell, before it shows up in this fourth-dimensional world, height, width, depth, and time. It’s an energy of some sort. I saw that energy.

I would see threads between people. I would know that. I learned it as a communication, as a language there. It was very frightening. Imagine 1959. That’s tough to imagine. In 1959, a teacher was teaching us, then, her face disappeared and now there are different versions of her and things about life. Now we’re under the ocean. There’s a crystal palace under the ocean. And these types of things will be in class and the teacher teaches me sine, cosine, and tangent in trigonometry. I would go into the state and trembling a little bit. I would say to the teacher, “It doesn’t make any sense.” He said, “Where were you?” “I don’t know but I wrote this afterward in a sweat and I just wrote the reciprocal functions.”

Or just telling people things about their life, just walking up to them feeling a sense of it, because it was language energy. It’s terrifying to a child. I was given barbiturates, at the level they would never give a child, to stop them and they’d stop them and I became “normal” for a while.

I learned to start the experience in the world that most people experience. I see both worlds. I experience both worlds and I have to block out most of it because it’s a sensory overload other than that. That led me to want to demonstrate to people there’s more than one type of intelligence. There’s spiritual intelligence, there’s the bio that keeps you alive and gives you certainty. Then there’s emotional, there’s mental intelligence.

We found these waves that produce the greatest level of human coherence. Coherence is energy efficiency, coherence in both here. If someone touches the low spine, it’s all gentle touch, a gentle touch, the neck will rock, but it rocks before the signal actually got up there. This unknowingness between parts. It’s as if one part of the system knows the other. It’s like when you’re in love. You can experience the other person before it happens. People adjusting two tables next to each other, they actually find the signal of one person very often shows up in the other person.

They also found in electromyography, the muscle reading up the spine, electro signal, recently, they were able to demonstrate the heart rate showed up that base of what we’re doing is creating an organization of oneness between the central nervous system and the heart between the body, mind, and spirit. In physical terms, the most intense mathematics, I’ve been involved in. People got PhDs in studying the work we’ve done, and master’s degrees in engineering, in mathematics, in psychology, in various different disciplines and continue to do this.

As for where it is, it’s academic, also. I don’t do research to prove something. I wanted to research to open people up to the fact that we’re all one, that the primary reality that’s more than we think and know, it’s more extraordinary. We participate in it. When we can participate in our own nature, everything is great.

Many people have used my methods for personal transformation or for personal development. Other people have used it for spiritual development. That’s not what it’s about because if you could have spiritually developed, if you’re not healthy, what’s the sense of it? You could say, “I’m going to use this for personal development,” but why do you want to develop?

This is the key, Orion. I think this will hit really big for you and all. I’ve been taking care of Tony Robbins for 16 years now, helping keep his living age and events between events, stuff, and become personal friends. He talks about how I’ve created the biggest influence of any male figure in his life. He’s been extraordinary in my life and what he works there.

This is part of what I learned. In life, no one wants to be a nobody. The first stage we go in life is to prove we’re not a nobody. It’s not my fault, it’s your fault. I’m not a nobody. The next part of the life we develop, as the mind develops to prove we’re a somebody. I’m going to be somebody so we get a BS or MS degree, more the same with Ph.D., piled higher and deeper, or we have to earn a certain amount of money, look a certain way, or have a certain number of people as the influencer. We have to achieve something because then we could show we’re a somebody. If you’re a somebody, you can’t be a nobody.

This is the point. There’s absolutely nothing you’ll ever achieve, no matter how you change your circumstance, no matter how much money you make, no matter how you look with your body, whatever it is, no matter what you achieve, that will ever sustainably make you feel like you’re enough. Period.

The whole personal development field is so you could feel you’re enough and achieve what you want to achieve. But most people want to achieve something, not like their father, to move away from something. You can never move away from something or ever attain something and actually have anything great.

Everyone listening on this podcast, I’m going to tell you something to save you a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of effort. Are you ready? Orion, are you ready?

Be more understanding of everyone’s differences.

I’m ready.

You’re not enough and you never will be period, exclamation point.


Take a breath. Not enough. Now, that saves all the stuff you never will be. None of us are enough for what we’re made for and none of us individuals will ever be enough. Once you do that, you realize, “Well, why do I believe I’m not enough? Maybe because my mother did this, I thought I was, or I was traumatized.” We are all light. We’re made of light. We transmit light. We eat light. We drink light. We speak light. We breathe light. There’s organized intelligence organizing our life into physical form in this fourth dimension. We exist in other dimensions as light. You know that, you’ve experienced that, Orion, correct?

Yeah. I would like to share that.

The point is this. At an exact day in your life, each of your lives, you had to be cracked open to light and to realize this visible world you believe is not enough. Some people had to be cracked open to realize your mother or father culture will not protect you. You got to feel uncomfortable. Many of you had to feel that you don’t belong because you don’t belong in this world. You belong in the world you’re meant to help create.

What happens is we identify with how we’re cracked opened as the cause of our pain rather than bless the fact that we were cracked open, we must experience the world, and bring light to people in a different way.

I love what you said about you don’t belong to this world. You belong to a world that you’re going to create, that you need to create. That’s powerful.

How do you know that? Because when you focus in the past, you have pain, the pain is not because of what happens in the past. The pain is because when you go to the past, you lose energy, you use energy of less effective emotions, less affection, thoughts. You don’t have enough energy to organize the world. You’re meant to live in the future. People get stressed about the future, you’re not meant to live in the future, you’re supposed to help to bring the past into the future.

It’s simple and it had to take working with a quarter of a million people. Probably, I have put about 8000 people in my transformational programs alone and help them see the relationship of spiritual awakening and transformation to people in a healthy state. In interviewing so many people writing books and having so many extraordinary experiences, I finally realized that I’m not enough and I started laughing. You see, it’s great to achieve, but just don’t think it is ever going to make it feel you’re enough.

Yeah, that’s a very powerful lesson.

The purpose of achieving is creating an app between you and the field of space between you to create synergy and help you even create a focus attention something beyond yourself. That’s the purpose of it, to create teamwork and synergy. Achieving the goal is not the thing, it’s creating this pathway in this energetic field that brings people together for a purpose, to have a higher-order goal or meaning in life. That’s what it’s about. Just don’t expect the money, the job, or the stuff to make it feel you’re enough because you’re not by yourself, you never will be. But then, what is? That’s the question.

The reason we feel we’re not enough is to humble us. So we’re divorced, we have a bankruptcy, we have a life-threatening disease, we have a traumatic event, we were raped. All these things happen to help us to be humbled and realize that we are not this physical body, we are not the mind, we are not our culture. The gift is to be humbled, not to be wounded and I have strategies so, in the future, people do not have to be wounded to be humbled.

I want to go into my first interaction with you one-on-one. It was in Business Mastery, I think it was 2013, you were just finishing working on Tony and Sage, and my then-boyfriend and now-husband, Stephan and I. You worked on Stephan.

He’s still your boyfriend and husband.

He’s still my boyfriend. He’s my best friend. I saw you working on him and I freaked out. His face completely changed and he was doing all these weird contortions with his body and I was freaking out.

I remember that. Your whole body got closed off, you’re ready to run out.

Oh my God, and then he worked on me and I think I was so closed off, I’m feeling nothing. Then the next morning, you had us in again and this time, I was like, “Okay, I know what to expect,” then you worked on me and all of a sudden, my chest started rising and I felt like there was a beam of light that connected me to a network of stars. It was just a powerful beautiful orgasmic sensation.

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When I asked you about it, you told me, “Yeah, I just connected you to your soul,” which just sounded amazing. I didn’t know what it meant, but it sounded really cool. Then a month later, we went to Oneness University in India and we had that final meditation with the monks. I had those incredible astral projection, traveling between realms, and seeing things. It was just incredible. While in the physical realm, I was on the floor laughing out loud for an hour-and-a-half. I think this would never have happened, that beautiful experience that I had in India if you didn’t open me that way months prior. I think I had a bit of ADD. I wasn’t able to be really present with my clients. I used to do personal training at that time. When I came back, I was all of a sudden able to focus and be with them.

As you know, my wife, Jack, and I were with Tony and Sage. I did an opening to the Oneness Temple, I took him to oneness. He said that there are three parts to oneness at that point. He said, “Was that being this which Oneness University presents doing this with Tony Robbins, teaching the third party?” I said, “What is that?” He says, “You connect the inner and outer world, but you need all three parts, because if you be, but don’t think differently, nothing happens. You eventually have to connect the inner and the outer worlds together from anything to happen in the world to manifest there.” And he said, “I believe you’re an avatar of and in around the world.”

When he told me that about 10 years ago, I put most of my attention on that, that’s my basic gift because it didn’t fit into any box. I put all the attention and I’m going to develop strategies where people could have those types of experiences on their own affecting the world, affecting life and way, and bringing it to all different levels which is what we’re really doing there.

The reality is with all the years of yoga, thousands of years, how many people were truly awakened? With all the years of people meditating days, how many were really awakened? I’ve spoken with some of the greatest spiritual writers and authorities in the world. I’ve taken care of Bob. He had me come out to India a few times to take care of his guide to be more effective in giving blessings.

I have a schedule with a transmission master in America who wants to see how we can help there, how we can improve his legacy and that type of thing. At the same time, some of the top world leaders, royal families, governmental leaders are either receiving some of the application I have myself or one of my people are trained or using the skill sets in how to use the energy information to make a change in the world.

What just happened then when you said you connected me to my soul? What did you do when you did that? How did that affect my Oneness experience and the rewiring of my neurology?

I’ll get back to this story thing here. Some of the physical care of giving people, we were measuring how they moved, how they arch up the posture and micro-electrical currents in the spine. What were identified, there were different levels, basically, developmental stages we go through. Each has more refined movements to the body. As the weight gets better, it gets more and more refined.

The 12 Stages of Healing by Donny Epstein and Nathaniel Altman

This is it. In 1994, I wrote a book The 12 Stages of Healing, which says this 12 stage of healing of consciousness from suffering to polarity, to feel like you’re stuck, enough of this, to claiming one’s power, to merging past illusions, to doing whatever it takes to prepare for what’s next, not know what’s next but feeling it, to coming to full resolution with who you’ve been and the hunger to have to be somebody. Then at that point, we grow beyond the mind and now we have the space of emptiness.

From there, we go into experiencing the light behind the form, the energy of everything. That’s the reality of experience, that reality is my normal seeing from a child there. Then from there, you get to being filled with light. From there, you are light and after that, you bring light from the mountain to the world. You then experience the community with a diversity of all beings as one.

That’s what I started with and I developed an exercise that’s called Somato Respiratory Integration (SRI) exercise, which I’ve done with you. Each one activates different energy. This is like 25 years ago. Since then, I said, “Let me see how those activate in the body,” and we mathematically organized that every single spiritual tradition from Judaism, to Christianity, to Buddhism, to Islam, to Hindu, all the major traditions. These are the maps with Ken Wilber. Ken Wilber said, “The first and second-tier disciplines around this new one.” What I’m doing is probably third tier and I incorporated some of his models, great spiritual writer, and philosopher of the century, and he said , while I was taking care of him, “I’m going to take care of you by connecting you to a space around your body in the field because I believe the field is actually impacting the body.” This was years ago.

I developed that into an entirely different discipline which I did with you, which was in the network, it was the energetic discipline. Instead of looking to find energy bound up in the body as tension, as limiting beliefs, as disease, as distortions, bound and liberating it, and with it liberating withheld information, was suddenly the energy around a rape, an attack, or birth process that you never were able to experience, you experienced, and suddenly you’re made whole. You move from a wound to a gift in a few moments, and a master of that, teaching people that and do that.

Improve your right brain skills as well such as creativity, intuition, and innovation.

What if instead, the source of energy was always available? You didn’t have to try to liberate anything, learn, or understand anything? Buddha didn’t meditate under a tree. That’s a story. He reached enlightenment and then he meditated. The spiritual masters couldn’t believe it, but they didn’t do yoga to do it. They were in spiritual states while doing yoga postures. It’s the tree of knowledge you have to understand and then maybe you’ll be awakened.

Meditation and prayer serve the purpose, it will never bring people’s next to your consciousness. Never and has never done that. But an extraordinary experience of the nature of the organizing forces of the world where suddenly we experience the world of reality, not the world we’re conditioned to see. Once we have that, now the meditation, now the prayer, now the oneness makes sense.

I help people at both ends of it, but this is it. Every tradition says around the body is a field of energy, an auric field, an energy field. You have different terms. Some say it’s energy, some it’s information. Some say commerce in the field. I now return to the field, the field is the cloud. Orion, when you store a file in a cloud, where is the file?

In the cloud? I don’t know.

You don’t know. It’s in every place and no place. It’s on some computer, someplace. We know it’s non-local, it’s not one place, it could be every place, but when you hit a couple of keystrokes, it connects it and from wherever it is, you have it available. Thoughts are not on your head, there’s no such thing as traumatic memory stored in the body. There’s no such thing as holding onto the past. It doesn’t exist. Everything is energy. Our body is a frozen light energy. Now, this is it.

The first energy they speak about is bio-energetic I call it. It’s in each of us. It lets us survive and makes living tissue from what you eat. Everything alive has that. The spider knows how to make its web, the plant knows how to make photosynthesis. It’s the perfect confection of all of life that happens with bioenergy, first intelligence. It happens to adults in utero, with enough energy, we develop perfectly our bones, our ligaments, connect tissue, we heal effectively, that’s it.

Its requirement as we have certainty that we keep everything the same, we have absolute certainty, nothing changes because its job is to make sure nothing changes. If you use this intelligence in life, in your relationship, it’s going to just be survival, it’s going to downsize your life to make sure all opportunities to reduce. Why? Because its job is to make sure you have enough metabolic energy just to survive and not more.

Next thing it develops in utero is emotional and energetic intelligence. It develops the immune system which helps us respond to rapid changes in the environment, react to emotions. It develops a long tension to the spine. That’s a little further out from your body and that develops in utero. Until you start reading and writing around age four, five, six, seven, eight. I suggest parents wait as long as they can to have the children write and read. If they can wait till five, six, seven, the devotional system develops more, they could feel more before they have to use your words. Emotions condition the DNA to have a wider range of adaptive responses to subtle changes.

Then you have two levels of mind, you have a conditioned mind, the monkey mind, it says good, bad, right, wrong. Its whole job is to help us fit into the culture. That’s it, because 80% of the world, if you don’t fit into the rules of the culture, if you’re not in complacent in culture, you’ll be dead or in prison, that’s it. That’s a developmental strategy that happens around time we read. Now it’s of me thinking, others and me thinking. That’s an important stage in development.

This is where we are conditioned to be a mini robot of our parents, we must be a mini robot. We should not think of big thoughts to say what we want. Don’t desiccate what you want at that age forward until a teenager. You tell them what they want they could adapt in the world the way you adapted. That’s how we evolve. Then you get to teenage and you go, “I’m not too sure about this, let me help this rule.” You develop that and the upper mind develops executive thinking. What roles do I have? Are these rules really valuable? What do they value the most? That’s where we have enough energy to now be able to make an impact in the world.

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Then after that, the next thing it develops, and for most people, it develops after the parents have died, after they’ve achieved and found out that it doesn’t do it. That’s a story of how the prince became Buddha. That’s the story of what happened in the spiritual traditions. Basically, the people supported Jesus, they were all well-accomplished in the area and they found out there’s not more, they had a spiritual experience with Jesus and now they realize there’s something more, and they turn their life around. That’s soul intelligence.

It’s not about the religious soul, it’s about the intelligence that organizes the experience of having unbound energy and unbound information available without ever being taught. It’s the massive force of instability that directs us in different paths in life. It says, “You go here and you go here.” They’ll change everything in a moment because there’s enough energy to put us back on our path.

It’s not about understanding and it’s not about answers to the universe. It’s about ripping apart our answers and helping us see life because all of the answers we want are to support our sense of self so we feel like enough. The spiritual energy helps us realize we are not enough but the spirit is enough and together we are.

When you experienced that, now that would naturally happen when a person goes through a rite of passage in their life, where they have enough loss, many times a violent loss but enough to liberate energy from the mind, the bound way to see the world, the cultural field, and suddenly, they have light. It may take them years to really work it out, I’d to make it happen real quickly.

Now, this naturally happens to build around the 50s or 60s. That’s the path where they have to become a sage more than a coach. They have to know that they know this effortlessness. At that point, what you learn is, please don’t postpone celebration or joy until you accomplish something because no accomplishment will give you joy. It will give you happiness, and make you feel less of a sh*t, that’s it.

But only experiencing the true nature of reality, like you started experiencing, will happen because, at that point, your energy can give gifts to other people, it adds value to other people whether you know it or not. Your presence does and this is a key. Get this. Everything you think about, every thought, every emotion, every action, your money, your business, everything is once you focus upon it, you are taking light and you’re directing, you’re encapsulating it. You’re bringing it into form.

Is this how you manifest things in the world?

Yes. If you have a low level of energy available, the body breaks down and you think painful thoughts and have painful emotions. The more energy, the better. The more energy you have available spills over, the better it is. We are rewarded or punished instantly for how much available energy we bring to the space between us. The space, the cloud of all information, the nervous system connects to the field and based upon how much energy we have in the tension and posture of our body, it determines what we think is reality. The worst day could become the greatest day in three seconds.

What can we do to get more energy?

There are lots of great questions, but the first thing is to start to understand your nature. That’s a whole different path of this, but let me continue with this. We’re rewarded or punished instantly by how much energy you bring to the world. When we make life about ourselves, our wounding, our path for healing and journey, there’s no room for anybody else, so we’re supposed to have inflammation and pain. As we produce more energy, our bodies produce anti-inflammatories.

Now, you could say, “I’m a vegan and I don’t eat sugar. I need eight hours of sleep a day and have to work out well.” I’ll tell you, you’re filled with an idea, you have extraordinary ideas, you could be up all night, you’re in love and you could be eating sugar, sweets, you could be licking chocolate syrup off the person, it’s perfectly okay. Metabolic energy is the lowest form of energy.

If you use a higher form of energy, none of that stuff matters. We must use each of these energies and then finally the oneness energy that brings us together. I’ve identified each of them, the body movements, the perceptions of structure, behaviors, and teach people how to access all of those energies. This is it. When you say, “Oh, my God, I felt the whole universe, my body arches up.” It forced to arch up because that activates different parts of the brain and different receptors. It takes you out of the fight-or-flight stress response. It takes you out of having to be somebody and suddenly, you’re a part of everything.

Anyone listening to this, if you’re a secret, you know that because there’s more than the physical universe. You want more, you don’t want less. You want to be more, you want to give more, you want to share more. You know it’s not about yourself because every time you make it about yourself, life sucks.

Please, if you’re an adult, do not try to be loved to get love. Do not feel bitter about yourself because it has never worked and never will work. If you feel you don’t have enough love, help someone else get love and to answer it. Whatever you feel is taken away from you or lacking, give it to somebody else and it’s great. The problem is you’re going in the opposite direction.

There are different typologies, that type of thing. For example, Orion, you’re what we call the external, either one of two things. I have all these typologies to teach people and we have a one-year course with me. It’s not about me giving a physical application. Teaching people strategies that are organized from the cosmos, but not just for you, for the bigger calling of humanity because that’s what we’re rewarded for.

Let me get back to this. When you say, “Oh, my God,” you don’t fall. You rose in love with Stephan, he rose in love with you. You feel loved because the collective union of the two of you, you’ll feel energy towards together, has the potential for letting up so many different people that on the potential, your biology is actually giving you the biochemical reward, opiates, hallucinogens, SSC, LSD, all the drugs that people take. They can only work if the body already has receptor sites for them, almost have receptors sites for all these drugs. Why would we have receptor sites for these drugs to be activated? Because when you do good for the world, it’s supposed to feel freaking good. When you make it bad yourself, you’re supposed to be in pain and no drugs are supposed to make that better.

Those drugs will not take care of it. It’s not that you’re sick, you’re not here doing what you’re here for, making it different for other people. Now, can you make other people still be sick? Yes, because you have to do it in a healthy way also. If you use spiritual energy all the time, you’ll be sick. I ask people this one question, and by the way, whether you feel so much. With Stephan, you feel that way because the two of you know you’re there for the bigger purpose of humanity. You know that, correct?

Yes, I do.

When you forget that you have fights. The point is, we are biochemically one instantly. Now, this is the challenge. People go to a meditation retreat to have a spiritual experience to go back to their life now and they crash. Why? Because that’s not so that you feel good about stuff. It’s so you know what you’re responsible for.

Donny, it’s really nice to hear you, I feel like I’m in the presence, I know that I’m in the presence of genius. I have so many questions and you have this infinite wisdom that I don’t think a year-long program with you will be enough, that’s why people are waiting for 30, 40 years, following you, and receiving the wisdom because it’s ever-evolving. Just in this little time, we had together, you packed so much information.

I want to be respectful of your time and I am so grateful that you shared what you shared with us so far. Before we say goodbye for now, two questions. One, what are your three top tips to living a stellar life? The second one, where can people find you, take your courses, come and actually receive the healing from you, from your practitioners, and get a taste of this amazing Donny-verse that I had the pleasure of getting to know?

I’m honored because we live in overlapping universes. We all do and we have to find where we overlap. That’s the key. Here’s the tip. One, the point is here. Each of us is guided in life. Our life is a unique laboratory for something. Find out where you’re directed, never try to fix the traits that are problematic with you. Never try to fix what’s not working because the person who’s observing that is not working. When you say, “I don’t understand,” it’s the you that observe in the universe who doesn’t understand. If that’s you or different energy, it will be a gift and you will understand in a second. This is it. Start with what’s working and go from there. 

Number two, be aware of whatever you think about, whomever you think about, you’re influencing. The quality of your thoughts is how much energy you have available. If you have something that’s painful and you feel it inside of yourself, put your hands up. Everyone do this when you can. Put your hands on your chest. Breathe in, you know the amount a couple of times, and say, “What is life about?” Orion, just do this. Put your hands on your chest and from inside your head while doing this, what do you know to be true about life?

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That life is magical.

Put your heads on your chest and answer from the inside your head.

My head?

Yeah. The energy just dropped. Do you feel that?


Tell me from this version of you who’s living inside the body, what do you know to be true?

That life is magical.

Tell me something else.

That life is beautiful.

Okay, stop. Put your hands out, reach up for the stars. What do you know to be true?

That I am magical.

Okay. When you put your hands on your body, everyone, if you live outside the body, in the cosmos, and not out on the body, when you put your hands on your body, you’re going to say whatever you think it’s supposed to be said, for you to be accepted and liked, never what’s true. You’ll say, “I’m achieving this,” or you’ll say what the conflict is, the problem is. You will either repeat a story of what your identity believes you’re supposed to be or where the conflict is.

When you put your hands out in the universe, if you live there, you’ll see what’s true. I’ve had people who have actually had all given cancer and they experience their identity in their body, they put their hands out the next day, the next week, the cancer mark is gone. It’s not cancer or anything. Once you bring more energy, that’s it.

A simple example, everyone. Think of this. When something’s painful or painful for you or difficult where you’re confused, are you closer to your experience, that personal experience closer to your body when you think about them or further from the body? When something’s joyful, are you further from your body or closer to your body? One way, either out, you’re going to be joyful and everything’s perfect and one way, you’re going to be totally compressed. For me, when I go out, I have stress, I have challenges. Where I come in, I have strength.

One way is to go where the energy is and you’ll see suddenly, there was a wound, a pain, or a problem, the worst day becomes the best day in a few seconds and you start realizing every story you have is a reflection of how much energy you have. Don’t believe your story. The story or reasons why things cannot happen is a means of just reflecting the energy. Change the energy, everything changes.

This is my next answer here, AAA. When you have a circumstantial experience or a symptom, be aware of it, not as a story, not because they have a rise of attention deficit, not because if it is, but it hurts here, I feel this, or I sense this. No story, no attachment, no reason. Just be aware of it as it is without the hunger to change it, without the hunger to understand it, without the hunger to make it go away. That’s the first process of awakening. Just be with it as it is.

Our pain, our suffering, our problems in life is not because we’re not experiencing. Once you have a thought, once you label it, once you put a name on it, you no longer experience it. You are locking in that energy and it’s no longer viable to change, there’s no ability to change. “Aww, it hurts here when I move my arm. It doesn’t hurt here, it hurts here.” Okay, that’s it. No name, no it shouldn’t be there, not it should be this long, not my mother had it. That’s the first step. Be aware of it as it is without the hunger to change, it’ll make it something else.

The second step is acknowledge it as it is. Sometimes, when this happens, it seems like that without the desire to change it or make it go away. This way, you experience the energy.

The third thing, accept that sometimes, I act this way. Just sometimes, not all the time. Those three things instantly create a whole source of energy to immediately start changing things moving, things there. In this next tier of human conscience which is upon us, pure awareness of the nature of us as a system, how we interact in the world changes things instantly. Knowing the game you play, how you experience the world is a game unto itself. It sets the forces in motion.

Please, don’t try to understand something first, that’s the defense process of the mind, experience it when your partner says, “You don’t understand me.” She or he doesn’t want you to understand him. He or she wants to experience all of them no matter what, love and understanding are opposite directions. Start experiencing an experience as it is without a thought, that transports you into the whole world environment. Whatever you observe observes you back. Anyone you’re thinking about, anything you’re thinking about, your finances, your business relationships, your cursing, your blessing, every second, you can change that and instantly, magic, I called it AlchemE can happen.

I know someone, for example, who experienced business, she lives outside out there, it was great. Money was inside where there’s no energy. In the same area, she held failure. What she did is start experiencing money outside, the next day, she got shared stock shares in the company. I’ve seen families who have not talked to each other for years, all the person did was start experiencing them in a map of where they had more energy and those family members who haven’t spoken with you have called up to apologize. I’ve seen this all, it’s magical we are one.

Ultimately, it’s all energy information. We have to know the recipe. I call that EpiEnergetics around all energies, informational consciousness. We must use the energy that produces the conscience that must happen in the world. It sounds complicated, it’s not. Every time something extraordinary of unconscious competency using it, everyone here, you could be liberated to an extraordinary life. You know it’s calling you. Stop searching. Listen to the calling.

The searching will always bring you comfort. It’ll bring you to more of yourself, it will fortify your identity, it will give you importance and significance. This calling always brings to you with the instability, it brings with people you don’t want to be doing things you swore you never do, and you know it’s right. You smile and you light the people up because it’s your calling.

People here, many of you have had life-threatening stresses or rapes, attacks, some typical situations happen in life. For that reason, your soul energy awakened early instead of at 50 years of age and to do it, you had to be raped, attacked, or have a serious event happen in your life where you might have been life-threatening. It felt like you couldn’t survive but could survive your mother. This way, your soul energy had to start developing earlier.

For you, you then blame the wound as the cause of it, the trauma. No, you were cracked over to life early because you have bigger gifts to give, the bigger the gift you give, the earlier your soul energy has to be cracked open.

It’s not for you to feel better about yourself, it’s for you to have a hunger to serve others. Please make it hunger, not pain when you do that. Humanity no longer has to suffer to really realize that we have to be more.

That’s beautiful. Wow. I’m super excited, I’m going to see you and Jack in person on Valentine’s Day, we’re going to The Gate, we’re going to bring our baby, and it’s going to be amazing. I can’t wait to go there and give you both a big hug and just experience that insane energy. That’s something that I want to gift my little baby as well.

The Gate is a 12-stage program. Tony has a new 12-stage program. Monday, after experiencing all the stages we speak about. How do people contact me? They can go to Facebook, Epstein Donny and on Instagram, @donny.epstein. You go to epienergetics.com, you’ll get to see the video, you’ll see a whole bunch of aspects of the work. If you go to epienergetics.com/alcheme, you’ll find about the one-year program and studying to start mastering the field.

If you’re doing this because you wanted it for yourself, it’s not going to work. You have to do it because you want whatever you’re here for the earth, to be manifest in a glorious new world for people so we could actually have the greatest renaissance instead of what seems like the greatest dark ages. Each of us are part of that change. Thank you and I love you. I look forward to taking care of you, being with you. We want to hug you and Stephan.

I love you, too. Thank you so much. It was a great honor. 

Thank you. Bye-bye, everyone.

Bye, and thank you, listeners. Remember to start with what’s working, the quality of your thoughts will create the quality of your energy. Experience things rather than thinking about things, and live a stellar life. This is Orion, until next time.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

{✓} Keep your heart open for all the possibilities and abundance the world is ready to give you. 
{✓} Develop a profound understanding of humanity and immerse yourself into diverse ideologies so that you can be more understanding of everyone’s differences.
{✓} Be conscious of maintaining a good posture. Sitting up straight, standing tall, and holding your head up high can instantly change your mood.
{✓} There are several types of intelligence. Improve your right brain skills such as your creativity, intuition, and innovation.
{✓} Experience as much of the world as you can. Don’t be afraid to try something new especially if it’s something to help improve your life.
{✓} Refrain from complaining. If you don’t like the situation you’re in, find a way to get out of it and create a world that you desire.
{✓} Live deeply and keep discovering your higher purpose in life. If you haven’t found it yet, be patient with yourself. Just keep working towards your goal.
{✓} Always give back. Life’s greatest blessing is our ability to be a blessing to others.  
{✓} Watch Donny Epstein’s video on The EpiEnergetics Experience to witness how he touches people’s lives.
{✓} Grab a copy of Donny Epstein’s book, The 12 Stages of Healing: A Network Approach to Wholeness.

Links and Resources

About Donny Epstein

Donny Epstein is the founder of EpiEnergetic and the creator of Network Spinal Analysis. He is an author of four books – including the Twelve Stages of Healing, and Healing Myths, Healing Magic. His models of wellness have been studied by numerous universities and have been subject for several major research projects. He is a leader in world-wide wellness as well as one of the true sages and genuine visionaries of growth, human potential and body/mind healing.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Orion Talmay, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.

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