A Personal Note From Orion

Welcome to another inspiring episode of Stellar Life! We sit down with relationship expert and bestselling author Laura Doyle. Together, we delve into the transformative power of respect, communication, and personal happiness in relationships. Laura shares her journey from marital struggles to becoming an empowered wife, highlighting practical strategies that can bring profound changes to any partnership. We discuss the importance of viewing one’s partner positively, the effectiveness of simple yet impactful communication techniques, and the powerful role women play in the dynamics of a marriage. 

Laure Doyle is a beacon of perseverance and adaptability. Throughout her life, Laure has shown a remarkable ability to transform challenges into opportunities for growth. Her journey is marked by continuous learning and improvement, both personally and professionally. Known for her empathetic nature, Laure’s relationships are grounded in mutual support and understanding. Her story is one of relentless dedication and the unwavering belief that with hard work and a positive mindset, one can overcome any obstacle and evolve into a better version of themselves.

Tune in for heartfelt anecdotes, essential relationship skills, and Laura’s top tips for living a stellar life. So, without further ado, let’s dive into the show!

In This Episode

• [01:05] – Orion Talmay introduces the guest, Laura Doyle. Laura shares one of her most cherished childhood memories.
• [06:03] – Laura explains what being a “surrendered wife” means, focusing on happiness and self-awareness.
• [11:25] – Orion and Laura discuss how perspective change can affect partner dynamics. Orion talks about viewing her partner positively.
• [15:23] – Laura describes how changing her narrative about her husband improved their relationship.
• [37:24] – Laura and Orion discuss how their childhood affected their views on marriage and personal responsibility for change.
• [45:10] – Orion and Laura talk about societal expectations for women to be controlling and the difficulty of relinquishing control.
• [52:15] – Orion discusses expectations and experiences with their children, focusing on being thoughtful and grounded.
• [56:47] – Laura’s top tips for living a stellar life.
• [58:25] – Laura offers a gift to the listeners/viewers.

Jump to Links and Resources

About Today’s Show

Hey, Laura. Welcome to the Stellar Life Podcast. It is a pleasure and an honor to have you here.

Thank you, Orion. I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Thank you. Before we begin, can you share one of your most cherished childhood memories with me?

One time, my father was digging a hole for a tree in our front yard, and he said, “I need you to stay away from this hole.” I don’t know how old it was, maybe four. I was like, “Okay, I’m going to stay away from this hole.” I was thinking, “Stay away from the hole. Stay away from the hole. Stay away from the hole.” I know I was at the bottom of this hole, and my father was so terrified because I’d fallen in any way, so he was able to pull me out, and I wasn’t even injured.

Everything was fine. But it’s really stuck with me. It’s a great example of what happens when you tell people not to do things. Sometimes, you just focus so much on what you’re not supposed to do that you end up doing that instead. 

I would probably be the same child. Like, I would do the same. I would go straight into the hole. Tell me something. I’m like, “Oh, well, let me not. Oops, I did it again and again and all over again.”

It does say something about our character, doesn’t it? We’re contrary people, apparently. 

The word surrender is a very triggering word for somebody who’s so rebellious. You wrote the book The Surrendered Wife. The title is very interesting, and like I said, it may be triggering for some. Maybe you can share a little bit about how you came to write it and what it is about.

It started because my marriage was in a ditch. We were fighting all the time. We were having cold wars with no talking and lots of tension. I knew that meant that we needed to go to marriage counseling. Everyone knows that’s what you should do. I dragged my husband to marriage counseling. I thought, “Good. Now, the counselor can tell him all the things he’s doing wrong and that he’s not being romantic because he wanted nothing to do with me.” 

He didn’t even want to spend time with me. He wasn’t even interested in making love with me. I know all men want that. Clearly, it was his problem, and the counselor was going to fix him. I was excited about that. But we were on the counselor’s gray couch when I realized, “This is hopeless. We’ve been here for over a year. He’s never going to change. I’m either going to spend the rest of my life in a loveless relationship or get divorced.”

I decided right then that I would just file for divorce. The only problem was I couldn’t quite get myself to go through it because I was embarrassed, and I didn’t want to lose status with my friends and family who had been to the wedding not that many years before. I decided, as a last-ditch effort, that I was going to ask women with happy marriages who’d been married for at least 15 years because that seemed like a really long time. I did not know how anyone could stay married for that long. I was going to ask them for their secrets, and they really delivered. They said things that sounded really counterintuitive and old-fashioned, and sometimes it just sounded crazy. But I just decided I was going to experiment with everything they said. And if it worked, I kept it.

I remember it was not even that long after that. I walked through the door, and when my husband saw me come in, his face lit up. He was happy to see me again. I’ve been gone. I thought, “Oh, there’s something here. This is working,” I was very excited because I wanted to get married so badly. I’d always wanted that. I wanted to feel loved, desired, adored, and just to laugh together. I thought, “Now I can have all of that. Now, we’re not going to have those big fights in the car anymore.” 

Then, not long after that, we had one of those big fights in the car. I knew what to do, but it was really hard to get myself to do it. I had the idea. I wanted to be doing these things the new way wasn’t so hard. It was just new. I thought I would get some of my girlfriends complaining about their marriages, too. I’m going to get them to do this with me, and then maybe that’ll help these new habits stick. I got it. 

Respect in a relationship is like oxygen. It’s essential, and often it’s the key ingredient that’s missing. Share on X

I had a little support group in my living room, and we were all talking about using what we learned from these wise, happy wives. We saw miracles. One woman said, “My husband won the sales contest at work,” and he took them on the most romantic getaway of their lives. Another one said, “Well, this is not going to seem that big, but my husband and I have been fighting about him painting the family room for months. And then he just got up, painted it, and was happy. He was smiling, proud of himself, and loved being my hero and painting the family room. This is a miracle.” 

We all agreed on that. That’s a miracle. Because we’ve all been in that situation where you want him to do something, and he won’t. So one of the women in my little support group said, “Can you write down what we’re doing for my cousin who lives all the way across the country so she can do it, too?” I said, “Sure.” That became my first book, The Surrendered Wife. I was in my own little world. I didn’t know that was going to be a topic that was going to upset so many people.

I just named it that because it’s not surrendering to anyone. You’re just not trying to control what your husband eats or wears, how he drives, or what he does at work. It’s more about just focusing on your own happiness, which improves the intimacy, and then it allows him to be the man with whom you fell in love, which is exactly what happened. I wrote that book, and it was number one on Amazon. It became a New York Times bestseller.

It was published in 19 languages in 30 countries, and women from all over the world wrote and said, “I want some more support with, how do you do this?” I remember trying to support so many women from all over the world single-handedly, and then I got a little overwhelmed and just said, “Well, I need to use the restroom.” I just kind of just kept going and didn’t ever come back for years. I just kind of felt like I wasn’t going to be able to support all these women. Anyway, I finally got the idea to train some coaches on this. Hundreds of coaches help me support all the women in the world on a mission to end world divorce.

I just interviewed Yanik Silver, and he’s got the concept of being the sun that lights a thousand suns.

It’s so beautiful, isn’t it? It’s amazing because it feels so purposeful and exciting to be one of those thousand lights or the sun that lights a thousand to all of it. But it also feels terrifying. It’s kind of frightening to feel the responsibility of that on you. I’ve wondered many times, “Am I enough? Am I big enough? Am I smart enough? Can I do this?” But it’s been an incredibly gratifying adventure to be on.

When did you know that you’re enough?

I’m still wondering about that, Orion. Every day I’m like, “Oh, my gosh. It doesn’t ever seem to end.” I mean, when I surrendered, when I got off of what I call my husband’s paper—I was trying to tell him how to be, what to say to his family members, and how he should eat healthier or whatever—it was much scarier to be Laura because then I was called to write New York Times bestselling books. Then, I got to go on national and international television and was invited to speak in front of a live audience. I hadn’t done any of that before, and it was all very scary. 

It was much less scary to be the armchair critic of my husband’s life and avoid the things I was called to do. But so then I would do each thing, and I go, “Okay, I did that. And that’s great.” And then you get the courage after you run through the waterfall of fear. After I ran through it, I got to the other side and said, “Okay, I did it. I was on those shows. I wrote that book, and I’ve got some haters. Or I did that speaking engagement.”

How do you deal with that? Because obviously, it’s really tolerating, especially for young women or not-so-young women who think they should be the boss. They should wear the pants. Surrendering, not controlling, not telling him what to be, not being his boss. Actually, I have to admit, this morning, my four-and-a-half-year-old asked me, “Mommy, are you the boss of daddy?”

I jokingly said, “Yes.” And then my husband was kind of pissed off. And I said, “No, he’s actually a contractor,” which he didn’t like either. But honestly, I’m really working in, and it comes and goes in waves because my personality is that four-year-old, that when you tell her not to do something, she will try to do that. She comes up sometimes and throws a tantrum. In an ideal world, I would be better. But my husband and I have been together for a decade now, and we improved a lot. But it seems like a never-ending journey.

I know. I have been practicing intimacy skills for almost 25 years, and I still have my days when I just think, “Oh, is he gonna wear that? Why doesn’t he? Why is he watching this show?” So, it does seem to be a lot better. It’s a lot easier. The environment at my house is so wonderful now compared to how it was. I was brushing crumbs off the counter, and he said, “Oh, don’t move.”

He gets his phone out. He starts taking my picture like I’m the supermodel that he’s been married to for almost 35 years now. So it’s just really sweet. I love it. But I still feel that maybe my factory settings were to be a little controlling out of my firstborn, too. So I don’t know if that contributes to it or whatever, but no. See, I don’t know what it is. But I also feel so I now look back at the breakdown of my marriage, and believe it or not, I’m grateful because I don’t think I ever would have walked through that door marked self-improvement, self-awareness. 

I wouldn’t have listened to those wise women when they told me those secrets that sounded old-fashioned and crazy, and I’m so happy that I did because that’s been the best self-improvement program I’ve ever been on. My marriage has been like a mirror, like at the ballet bar, to see how I am doing. “Am I showing up with dignity? With kindness? Am I being authentic? Do I have integrity in my words? Am I accountable? Am I humble?” That was a big one for me because I didn’t really understand why anybody would want to be humble. I thought, “Why would you do that? I’m so smart. I’m probably smarter than my husband. So why should I be humble?” 

In my house, it is. “You see, I’m right. See, I’m right. I’m always right.” Most of the time, I’m always right.

The gift of being with other people is they see things about us that we don't see about ourselves. Share on X

I’m always right, too. We get to joke about things. There’s a lot more playfulness. We just had a situation the other day where we were watching a comedian on TV, and we were just laughing. He would say, “Oh, I married a talker. My wife’s a talker.” I was laughing so hard. And then a few minutes later, we’re getting ready for bed, and my husband looks at me, and he goes, “I married a talker. My wife’s a talker.” 

I was like, “This is not so funny anymore.” He’s talking to me like, “Ouch. You know?” It’s just so nice to have these intimacy skills because I thought, “Wait, he never intends to hurt me. So if I’m feeling hurt, there’s a misunderstanding.” Then I thought, “Why is he saying that?” And I thought, “Oh, he might just be repeating the thing that made me laugh before because he knows I love to laugh.” 

I wanted to say I talked just the right amount. “Why are you saying that? We’re having such a nice time. Why are you ruining everything?” But instead, I was able to get myself to that place of, like, “Oh, he had a good intention.” He always does. And we went to bed, and we kissed good night. It was peaceful. It was nice. No intimacy was lost. So this feels like having a superpower, and I didn’t used to have that.

Nice, well done. I’m still at a stage where I’ll be like, “Excuse me, why are you doing this?” For somebody like me who’s still in this stage, maybe you can share some intimacy skills.

Glad to do that. Well, it’s one of my favorites, and I leaned heavily on it. I feel like this is a good intro. There are so many I want to tell you about, but I’m just picking one. I was naturally very controlling. I really was spending a lot of time thinking about what he was doing. One of the phrases that I lean on to this day when I feel tempted to tell him what he should say at work or do at work or whether he’s driving, should take the freeway or not is, “It’s just really not my concern, whatever you think.” 

I had trained him to always ask my opinion, like when he was going to start a business or get dressed or big or small things. My husband was also the youngest boy in his family, so we just had very different styles of speaking. There were four kids, so I had three little minions in my family, so I learned to speak very authoritatively. They would ask questions, and I would just tell them the answer, whether I knew it or not. I was just saying it’s like this.

My husband, I think, learned to ask questions of his older siblings. So he’ll sometimes just ask a question, what should I tell so and so or whatever. And it is so tempting for me just to jump in and tell him, but instead, I just lean on, “Oh, whatever you think.” Or he’ll say, “When should I mail the property taxes?” And I’ll be like, “Oh, whatever you think.” And meanwhile, I’m thinking, like, “Well, you’re gonna mail them.” 

Why not just pay for everything online or whatever, right? I’ve got ideas, but it costs too much intimacy for me to say those things. One of my favorite stories about this is from a student, Kathy Murray. Her marriage was really bad. They had been sleeping in separate beds for six months already, and she got my book, The Surrendered Wife, and she read the whole thing while she was away for the weekend at her mom’s. 

Nobody ever got happier by complaining about your spouse.

Then, when she came back, she thought, “I’m going to try experimenting with this phrase.” And her husband came to her and said, “You got to tell me what you want me to do about the cell phone. We need to pick a plan.” And she wanted to say, “Okay, let me see it. I’ll figure it out.” But she thought, “No, I’m going to just try this phrase.”

She said, “Oh, whatever you think, Doug.” And he looked at her like, “Wait, no, I don’t want to be in trouble later. So tell me what you want me to do. You got to tell me.” And she just stuck to her phrase. She said, “Oh, whatever you think, Doug.” And then she added, “I trust you.” And he was just amazed. He was like, “Okay.” He went away and figured out the cell phone plan. She was worried he was going to overpay or pick a crummy plan, but he didn’t. 

He did fine. And that night, he came to her, put his hand on her shoulder and said, “You were so nice today.” And tears just started running down her cheeks. And they slept in the same bed that very night. They had great sex for the first time in six months. They were on the verge of divorce. She’d been going to marriage counseling every week by herself to complain about her husband for an hour a week, which never works, by the way. Nobody ever got happier by complaining about your spouse.

Because where you put your attention, where you put your focus into it, it just grows. So, at the beginning of our journey, we went to some couples counseling, and I always left more bitter, more angry, more like a victim. Maybe it works for some people. For me, what I found, actually, that helped us in our relationship was two things: imago dialogue. 

It was really good because it’s a dialogue structured in a way of just listening and validating the other person. You don’t have to agree with them. You just have to listen, repeat, and make sense to me. I understand how you feel because sometimes we want to feel heard. So that helped. We also studied Kabbalah together, which is a mysticism. It’s not about the religion.

It’s about the mystic ideas and values that brought us together because we took responsibility for ourselves. So I don’t think we’re not there. We have a lot to work on every day. I listened to another podcast interview of yours where you gave that tip of saying whatever you think. I did it with him a few times, and he didn’t like it. He doesn’t like whatever you think, but it frees me. I kind of like, “Okay, it feels nice.” It’s a process that is whatever you think.

I think that’s frustrating and annoying when you use the skills. You think, “Oh, it doesn’t work with my husband.” I find that it’s annoying when that happens. One of the things when we get to dive deeper. I’ll give you an example of a time I used it, and it didn’t go over well at my house either, which was when I had birthday flowers, and they were starting to wilt. My husband said to me, “What do you want me to do with these flowers? Do you want me to throw these out?” 

I just sort of lazily said, “Oh, whatever you think.” And then he got mad. He turned to me and said, “No, what do you want me to do? I don’t know what you want me to do.” And I was like, “Oh, that wasn’t a whatever you think moment. That’s not me being on his paper. That’s him asking what I desire.”

It’s not what you say but how you say it. And it’s about more listening.

For me, it’s just like, that wasn’t the time. He wanted to know what I wanted, but his responding angrily got me to snap a little bit. I was like, “Okay. Yeah, he’s asking for my desires.” That was a big problem I had early on in our marriage, too. I didn’t always know what I desired, and I didn’t express it.

I didn’t know how to express it except to complain about what I didn’t want. My husband didn’t know what I wanted. I snapped him and said, “Oh, yeah, I am done with those flowers.” Please take them out to the trash.” He’s like, “Okay, I will.” And then he was happy again because he knew how to make me happy, which is a big priority of our husbands. I’m not saying you didn’t use it in the right context. I don’t know exactly. But I just know.

I know it’s a practice. I understand that. And there is always a time when it’s not what you do, it’s how you do it. Like the lady, what she added at the end was really important because she says, “And I trust you.” Because if I don’t say, “And I trust you,” he will immediately say, “That’s a trap. That’s a test. She’s trapping me. She’s testing me. If I have the wrong answer, I’m going to fail.” The last thing a man wants to do is to fail. Men are meant to be hunters, and they want to win. And when they feel like winning, they’re at their best. But if he feels like he will fail with whatever you think, he won’t like it.

This makes total sense, and I love that. And it’s true that it is so interesting to me. Something I didn’t really have a grasp on early on was how important it is to our husbands that they want to make us happy. I’ve asked thousands of men now, and I’ve done my own little research about this. I’ll say, “How important is it to you that your wife is happy?” And they all say the same thing. They say, “It’s everything,” or, “Oh, that’s the most important thing.” And in the UK, they say, “It’s imperative.”

I’m like, “Oh, interesting.” Wherever I go, they’re all giving the same answer. And I remember thinking with my husband, like, “Oh, he doesn’t care about my happiness. That’s the last thing he cares about.” Because we had been butting heads for so long, I restored the respect in our relationship, which is like oxygen. And then I’d gone missing. Of course, that’s going to interfere with his ability to be your hero if he’s not getting oxygen in the relationship. Suppose he doesn’t feel respected.

It’s just interesting how all the intimacy skills built on each other and helped me have a way to say things. But just being able to use the cheap phrases was great because, at first, I just wanted a better response from my husband. I think a lot of husbands are suspicious. At first, I know my husband. I remember I took some perverse pleasure from using the cheap phrases on him, and I would just see his head explode. 

Receptivity is a central part of femininity. Being a good receiver maintains intimacy and happiness in a relationship. Share on X

Like, “What just happened? Who is this woman? What has she done with my wife?” But I remember asking him later, “Were you suspicious?” And he’s like, well, he goes, “I wonder what was going on?” But he goes, “It’s sort of like when you see a magic show, you don’t want to ruin it by saying, hey, how are you doing that trick?” Or whatever? He’s like, “I just enjoyed feeling like I could make you smile again, and you respected me again.”

What are some more phrases we can use?

I just wish I had learned this when I was growing up. And it’s something I feel like every woman needs to know. That is how you express your desires in a way that inspires you. I’ll tell you a sad story about my younger self. We didn’t know how to do this before we were married. My husband took me on a romantic trip to Hawaii, and I was really excited to go because I thought, “Oh, I cannot wait to go to the beach.” 

That’s what you do when you’re in Hawaii. You go to the beach. So on the first day, instead of saying, “I would love to go to the beach,” I said, “Hey, what do you want to do today?” And he goes, “Well, we could look at a volcano.” I was like, “A volcano? Okay.” But I didn’t want to have conflict; I didn’t want to say, “Well, that’s not what I want to do. I wanted to go to the beach. So I thought, “I’m just going to suck it up and see the volcano.”

We get in the car, and we’re driving along, and there’s no volcano for a long time. You could see the molten rocks on the side of the road. And then all of a sudden, I start thinking, “Gosh, he didn’t even ask me what I want to do.” And I start to get upset. And he just looks over me. He’s like, “Is everything okay?” And I went, “Did you think this is gonna be fun?”

Men want to be our heroes.

We never even made it to the volcano because as soon as he heard what I wanted to do, he turned the car around, even though I’d behaved so badly, and we went to the beach. I couldn’t even enjoy myself because I had lost my dignity. I just had this terrible emotional hangover. And part of me knew, if I continue to act this way, it’s repulsive. He’s not going to want to be around me. And so I’m so happy.

I learned these words that I now use to express my desires in a way that inspires me, and I want to just say them. If you can write these down, please just write them down. I’ll give you an example. I would love a specific final outcome. In the bad old days, I used to say things like, “This kitchen is a disaster.” I thought my husband was going to jump off the couch and start cleaning it and stuff, but that never happened.

I don’t think people can hear us when we’re complaining. When you say what you don’t want, that’s the same as complaining. Finally, one day, I said, “I would love a clean kitchen.” And my husband goes, “Okay, I’ll clean it.” And he did. He’s been cleaning it ever since. This is over 20 years. I never cleaned the kitchen at my house. Why? Because it makes his wife happy. And this is what men are motivated by. They want to be our heroes. So he is my hero, and every day, I’m all like, “Oh, my gosh, this kitchen is so clean. I just love it. Thank you so much.” And he’s so proud that he made his wife happy.

I use that phrase, too. I was like, “Oh, I would really love this clean kitchen.” And he did that, and it was awesome. And then the next time I said it, “I would love a clean kitchen.” He said, “You would love it, won’t you?” He kind of got me. I’m still going to use it.

He was mocking you a little bit.

He was just like, “You would, wouldn’t you?”

But did he clean the kitchen or not?

Yes.

Whenever I feel fear come up that is behind my urge to control, I’ll just say my mantra: surrender, surrender, surrender.

Oh, he still cleaned it even though he said that?

He’s a good man and a great guy. Sometimes, we are who we are, and we have our shadows. My husband is awesome.

Orion, that really says volumes about it. I can tell you have a good marriage because it’s such a respectful thing to say about your husband.

I kind of didn’t respect him by mocking him a little bit, which I do. Sometimes, he’ll say something I don’t like. But it’s just like, “Ah, it’s the next step in my evolution as a surrendered wife.” So what is the word surrendered mean to you? What is it to be a surrendered wife?

One example is let’s say you’re stuck in traffic, and you wish the traffic would move, but it won’t. But you could use that time too. You could talk on the phone, you could listen to a podcast or an audiobook, and you could be grateful that you had that time in the car, even though you were stuck in traffic, to begin with. So, for me, surrendering is more about just focusing on making myself happy. 

Like, “How am I going to be responsible to delight Laura today?” Do all the things that make me smile and laugh and dance and sing, and then that, in turn, really improves the intimacy, because that’s who my husband fell in love with, was that girl of fun and light that was having a great time, regardless of some of the circumstances that could come up. I think people hear it and think it means subservient, like he’s the boss.

I just didn’t like that word either at first. But now I love it because whenever I’m tempted or feel the fear come up, that is behind my urge to control. It’s just my mantra. I’ll just say, “Surrender, surrender, surrender.” And that reminds me to stay with myself, honor my desires, make myself happy, and that I have a good man, just like you do. When we were smart, when we got married, we wouldn’t have married id**ts. We married good men.

I married an id**t before.

But not the one you’re married to.

No, thank God.

We all have a spouse fulfilling prophecy. Sometimes, it’s unwitting; it’s not a great one. At other times, you can be intentional.

I hear you. That’s surrendering. It’s bringing the focus back to ourselves and honoring ourselves, making ourselves happy, and letting our husbands really shine in the ways we did when we first fell in love with them.

People will show up if you allow them, but if you hold a certain identity and keep them in a box, that will play into the identity you create for them. This identity is formed from the stories you have in your mind about this person who has infinite potential, and he shows up as just one thing according to your own story. When you change your story and learn skills, like the skills you shared, you have a much better relationship, and they show up differently. They light up, like you said.

I talk about this when I think of it as being the spouse fulfilling prophecy. We all have a spouse fulfilling prophecy. Sometimes, it’s unwitting, and it’s not a great one. At other times, it can be intentional. For example, I used to get mad. I would tell my husband he should try to make more money. He needs to get a raise, and he should get a better job. And what he heard was, “You don’t make enough money.” That’s accurate. I’m not proud to say it. 

We got to the point where he wasn’t making any money. He quit his job. I was furious. I was so resentful that he would do that. I was the only breadwinner at our house, and I couldn’t understand why he could just leave it to me. I continued down that destructive path of saying, “Make enough money, don’t make any money.” And that was the exact experience I was having. Then, I learned from Lee Milteer that I could change it up. 

I decided to come up with a new spouse-fulfilling prophecy. And it was, “You’ve always been a good provider.” It felt like a stretch because he’s not really a good provider right now, but he had been in the past when I first met him. So I started saying that and telling it to myself, and then I would find a reason to say it to him, too. I kind of gather evidence. And then just for fun, I thought I’m also going to call him Mr. Moneybags. 

This is the experience I want to be having. But it was hard because I thought there was not much evidence, but I’d be like, “Oh yeah, you’ve always had a good job. You’ve always been a good provider.” I felt like I could find some evidence of that from the past. Well, around the time I started saying that, my husband started his own company. He had never done that before and was very successful with it. He made more money than he had ever made at any of his jobs. So he would get a big check, and I would go, “Oh, Mr. Moneybag got a big check in the mail.” I ended up experiencing the spouse fulfilling the prophecy that I focused on. My experience is what I focus on increasing. I can choose it wisely or unwisely.

Express your desires in a way that inspires. Share on X

In Judaism, they say—I’ll say it in Hebrew. The loose translation is—the woman is a help against him, which means the woman can be a help or she can completely destroy him against him. So how we show up for our partners is so important because we can build them up or destroy them. We can build up the marriage, or we can destroy it. And we have so much power. And when we’re in victimhood and give away our power, the household collapses.

It’s so true. My parents are divorced, so I think I followed a failed recipe.

Oh, man. Let me tell you about my childhood.

Being the wife, tearing down the husband. If that’s the modeling you had, it doesn’t seem like it’s not something you shouldn’t do. This is what you have demonstrated. So many of us are from broken homes now.

I’m from a broken home. For me, the example was the opposite. My mom was so submissive, and my father was very aggressive and didn’t treat any of us well. I learned this was what I thought was a relationship. I didn’t have any model for a good relationship. And it’s not an excuse. Whatever you’ve been in your childhood is a catalyst to some events in your life, but it shouldn’t be an excuse for your future, because you’re a grown person and you can learn skills and you can get a coach like a Laura Doyle coach. You can read books, and you can improve yourself. You’re always in control. You got to take ownership within your relationship and also prior to them.

It is so exciting. That’s what I love about being an empowered wife. That’s my latest book.

Let’s talk about The Empowered Wife. What is that all about?

Once, I had the skills to speak for myself, honor myself, express those desires, be respectful, be vulnerable, and be grateful. All these virtues are what we think about cultivating. But I didn’t really know how to do that. However, having specific words and instructions was so empowering. Remember the power you felt when you first fell in love with your man. As you felt desired, you knew he would go to the end of the earth for you. It’s a heady feeling.

You have all this power. All of that comes back when I learned how to express myself, how to use all these cheap phrases and these skills, these actions that I learned from these happy wives, that they already knew this existed long before I was born. This ancient wisdom is referenced in all kinds of ancient religious books, but I heard about them growing up, and I didn’t have specific examples of how to implement them. So that’s been a game changer in having me feel like the supermodel at my house. Like my husband, he does so much for me now, and I feel so desired. He makes bedroom eyes, and he just comes and sits. I’ll be working on my laptop, and he just has to go and sit right next to me now. Whereas before, I couldn’t get him to come and sit next to me or talk to me.

That’s a major shift. And you say that when you changed, he changed.

In some ways, maybe he just went back to being the man he was before I started squelching him and squandering that. But I also think I was able to change the culture in our home with gratitude. For example, one part of the gratitude skill is coming up with three gratitudes a day for your husband and sharing those with him. So when I started doing that, he started thanking me for things, too. So instead of taking each other for granted, what I used to do is, “Okay, you clean the kitchen. That’s nice, but what about wiping off the counters?” Just focusing on the not enough. So now we have this incredible culture of, like, “Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for all the things you do.” 

And that just contributes to such a sense of abundance and well-being. I remember one of my students resisted this idea, Isabella. She’s like, “I’m not going to thank him because, first of all, I do everything. And second of all, no one’s thanking me. I can’t even think of three things that he does.” But she decided she was going to do it every day for a week. The first day, she just thanked him for working hard to support the family, even though she’s like, “I work too.”

But it’s still a contribution. And then she thanked him for watching the baby while she went to exercise. The third day I think he took care of the car. She thanked him for that, and she was shocked because the next day, they were sitting down to dinner, and he said, “You really taught me that we need to appreciate each other more. So I want to thank you for making dinner.”

Women are built to receive.

She almost fell out of her chair. “I can’t believe this is the culture at my house now.” But she did that by going first, taking the high road and expressing her gratitude. It can be hard to get there at first, but the benefits are pretty incredible.

How about receiving a gift you don’t want? For example, my husband likes to help me by backing up my phone, but I end up unable to use it the next day. He’s got a really nice intention, but then I’m like, “Oh, without my phone, what am I gonna do?” But I know that the gift comes from a nice place, or he’ll give me something I don’t like. How do you react to that?

I love this question because we’ve all been there. I remember one student. He’s like, “My husband got me a Swiss army knife for my birthday. What is he thinking? This is the least romantic present.” So receptivity, one of the things I learned from those wise women, is that that is the essence of femininity. So, to be more feminine, we are meant to be fundamentally attracted. We are built to receive. 

Physically, it’s a metaphor. I just think about all the things, like, receiving. We leave the restaurant, and it’s raining, and my husband goes to get the car, gives me his jacket because I’m cold. And I wasn’t very good at this. We’d wake up in the morning, and he’d go, “Oh, you’re so beautiful.” And I was like, “No, don’t look at me. My hair is messy,” And I couldn’t receive his compliments, or he would get me flowers, and I would say, “Oh, these are just too expensive, and they die anyway.” Like, I would talk them out of it. And he couldn’t make me happy.

Which we know is imperative. It’s the most important thing for men. My not being a good receiver really cost us in the area of intimacy. There was nothing my husband could do about it because I was the one who was putting up the hand. Like, “You know, no, I won’t receive.” Of course, not every gift is fantastic. Or, like, exactly what I would have gotten myself had I just gotten in the car and gone to get it myself or ordered it online. 

If you’re going to be receptive, it’s also partly about being open to what your husband sees about you, where he sees a possibility to delight you that might not be so obvious.

But for that, I can just go online and order things myself. But it was a reflection of him thinking about me, him wanting to make me happy, wanting to make me smile, wanting to make my life easier. When I think about your husband updating your phone—you already are so good about this, Orion—you’re like, “I know it’s coming from a good place. He’s wanting to help me. But then, so frustrating. I couldn’t use my phone the next day, and that was maddening.”

Like, “Surprise, no phone. I backed it up for you.” “Yeah. Thanks, babe.”

There could be further desire. Like, “I would love to be able to use my phone today,” or something like that. And you did it already, so naturally. So this might be a strength of yours, but not a strength of mine. This is something you’re being more gifts.

I really want them to buy me things. Not because I cannot buy them, but because I want them to get me more.

Sure, I feel like stuff. That’s your birthright as a woman.

He gives me what he thinks I should have, but I’m like, “Just give me a random piece of jewelry every once in a decade. I want that.” He will refuse to do it. And I think I know why. He doesn’t want to fail at choosing the wrong thing. He said, “I can give you a gift card.” I’m like, “I don’t need a gift card. I can go and get it.”

I love this example. Because I relate to you so much, Orion. Because I’m controlling, I think my husband saw me as unpleasable. Whatever he got, it wasn’t going to be right. For me, it’s been an experience of letting him broaden my horizons, letting him get me something that is not exactly what I would have chosen for myself. But finding what I love about it, it’s kind of like what you do with a friend. Like, a friend gets you a present. 

You don’t go, “Oh, my God, why did you get me this?” But you would say, like, “Oh, I love the color,” or whatever. Let’s say he buys you jewelry, and you think it’s ugly. Then what are you going to do? You won’t even want to wear it. I think of this one student. Her husband got her first, a beautiful purse. She loved the purse, but it wasn’t big enough for her to put all her stuff in. She said, “Oh, thank you. It’s so beautiful.” But she returned it, and then later on, she kind of realized, like, “Oh, I guess I didn’t really receive that very well.” 

She apologized and goes, “I apologize for returning the beautiful purse you got me. I loved it.” He goes, “Oh, thank God”. She’s like, “Well, what?” And he goes, “I just thought, “How am I ever going to make her happy if she said she loved it?’” But then she returned it, and I was like, “I didn’t know what to do.” The next thing he got her was a sweater, and she was like, “Ah, this is not my color, you know. Thank you.” 

Well, here’s what happened with her sweater, though. She kind of learned her lesson. She didn’t return it. But she thought, “Okay, whatever. I’m just gonna put it in my drawer, and we’ll see.” So she took it out, and she put it on one day because she just thought, “Let me just kind of receive his present.” So she put it on, and she got so many compliments, and she realized, “Actually, I think I do like this sweater.” It grew on her anyway.

It became her favorite sweater. Some part of the gift of being with other people is they see things about us that we don’t see about ourselves. So if you’re going to be receptive, it’s also partly about being open to what your husband sees about you, where he sees a possibility to delight you that might not be so obvious.

My little one always tells me when he doesn’t like a gift I get him, and I try to teach him how to receive gifts and how important they are, but how can I teach him if I don’t do it myself?

I love your accountability. You’re so cute. You are so open. You’re an ideal student of intimacy skills, I feel. Because you’ve tried on these things, first of all, and you’re saying, like, “Oh, I’d like to grow in this area, and I’d like to grow in that area.” I just admire it so much. I get excited, actually.

You know what I admire about you? Everything. I listened to your podcast interview on Reclamation Radio, and that was amazing. And I also listened to an episode on your podcast, The Empowered Wife. Just the way you speak about people and you speak to people, I was like, “Wow, she’s a person I really would love to talk to. She’s so kind, so empathetic, so down to earth with all her success,” and you have mega success in your field, and you’re still such a beautiful person and easy to connect with and sweet and kind.

My journey continues. Being on the mission to end world divorce provides many opportunities for me to continue honing my intimacy skills.

It’s much easier to learn from people like yourself. And it’s rare because some people behave differently when they get some sort of status and recognition. And you’re very much in your lane, in your path, and honest with your audiences and walking your talk, and that is really beautiful, and your smile is gorgeous, too. Thank you.

Thank you. Oh, so sweet. It makes my day.

When are we gonna receive the book The Surrendered Female Leader?

Oh, gosh, that’s good. It’s funny. The CEO of Laura Doyle Connect and I talk all the time about how we have to practice our business skills just like we do in our relationships. It’s actually been so eye-opening and empowering in business. I think that a big part of our success with now serving thousands of women all over the world in coaching is expressing our desires instead of complaining and being respectful to our colleagues, employees, contractors, team members, and everybody. And it definitely translates, really. It’s funny because I think, I know I just started doing this because I just wanted to change my husband. I wanted him to be better.

The joke was on me. It made me a better Laura. And that journey continues. And certainly, being on the mission to end world divorce provides lots of opportunities for me to continue to hone my intimacy skills. I’m so grateful and in love with my team, and they mirror that right back to me. I think it is because we feel intimate and connected, and everyone’s so skilled on that team. All the coaches have been trained in intimacy skills at the highest level. That’s actually one of my favorite things that I get to do. When we go to the coaching symposium once a year, all the coaches get together from all over the world, and it’s just the biggest love fest.

When I heard that podcast, you interviewed a woman who used intimacy skills to heal her relationship with her teenage daughter. So that was mind-blowing. So we need two more books.

Add them to my list here. There are so many valuable applications of intimacy skills. Her story is about healing her relationship with her teen daughter. It made me cry. It was so moving. Mother doesn’t want that right. To feel close to a teenage daughter. Teenagers have a reputation for being difficult or rebellious.

Be so thoughtful about the future that you want to create, and focus on what you want to experience instead of what you don’t want.

I’ve been thinking about it a lot because my little one has got a big personality. He can be really big sometimes. And I was like, “Wow, if you’re locking the door on me now when you’re four, what will happen when you’re 16?” He’s mostly a very charming little boy. He’s got his mom’s anger sometimes, but we’re very close. He’s like a mini-me, and I had to reframe that.

Your partner has infinite possibilities, and so does your child. So I’m gonna reframe that. We’re gonna be so close together when he’s a teenager, and he’s always gonna be close to me. We’re always gonna be in a loving relationship. This is what I want to manifest, and this is what I want to focus on. Not to say that I’m sure life throws a lot of things in your way, but I’m going to hold this as my reality, regardless of how teenagers act. 

I just can’t think of anything more important or more valuable to focus on. I just love that. I feel like your son is so lucky that you would expect the best from him because people tend to live up to our expectations. What a good mom you are.

I am a good mom. Sometimes I don’t, but I do my best.

It’s such a big, important job, and I hear you being so thoughtful about the future that you want to create, focusing on what you want to experience instead of what you don’t want.

I spend a lot of my life focusing on what I don’t want and manifesting that, as well as focusing on what I do want and manifesting that. I would rather manifest what I want when I’m conscious about it and focused on it and remind myself to get back in my body and ground and forget about everything else and move through the emotions and move my body and feel good about myself and keep my vibration higher so I can be a better person, better mom, a better leader, better everything.

I admire that so much. That’s what it’s all about, too, every day, just wanting to be my best self and therefore have my best marriage and my best other relationships and be the best leader. I’m just so grateful for having the skills that have helped me get there. I always wanted to do these things, to practice these things, to be this way, but I didn’t know how to get there. 

I just enjoy being with somebody who shares my priorities because that is what I think is important.

It was just so magical that I was able to get this wisdom from these women to help put the steps in place to get to that outcome. I just hear you being the same way. You’re like, “I’m studying from people that have what I want,” and the shortcuts that this is what I’m focused on. Anyway, I just enjoy getting to be with somebody who’s got the same priorities because that is what I think is important. Marriage is important. Having a great relationship is so important, and I can’t think of anything that’s more important.

Actually, not a lot of people get fame and fortune, and they don’t feel anything. They get the money to succeed. The yacht, the girl, the boy, whatever it is, it’s like a hiccup and, and then they’re on to the next thing. I think relationships, love, and connection are the most important things. That’s first and foremost. Of course, money, success, and all that are all great. It improves everything. It’s not what we really are here for.

You just made me think of Jennifer Lopez for some reason. One of the most beautiful women in the world, a very successful singer-actress, so much money, and she’s been divorced a few times already. And now her relationship with Ben Affleck seems to be in trouble. I’m heartbroken for her. It’s not too late to save that marriage. I don’t think it’s too late to save Jennifer. But like you say, this is without that. If she is not going to succeed, we know she cares deeply about having a happy marriage because she’s tried again and again. My heart breaks for her.

That lets unseen some love and light her way in her relationship. What are your three top tips for living a stellar life?

Well, the first one is definitely to make a list of your desires. This is something I like to do almost every day. I think about what it is I would love, and then I think about how to express that. I’m at least writing it down, kind of owning it that way. But sometimes, I also like to tell someone else, “These are things that I would love. It doesn’t mean they need to provide them for me. It’s just me honoring myself,” and that’s a huge one. 

I just love to express my gratitude for the life I live and for having this wonderful husband, too.

The second one is to make my gratitude lists every day, at least three things. I do three things for my husband. I also just love to do my gratitude for the life where I live and that I have this wonderful husband, too. I think Gaertner said “To live gratitude is to touch heaven.” 

I would say that the third one is about making my list. I have a list of 20 things that I do to make myself happy, things that just give me joy and frivolous fun. And I’m not talking about 30 minutes of cardio and five fruits and vegetables a day unless that feels really fun to you. But it’s just for things that make me smile and laugh or just feel really good. I like to give myself at least three a day, sometimes many more, so that I’m always radiating joy and happiness because that feels good.

I love it. Beautiful. Very practical, too. Where can people find you to get your books?

I have something special. I have a little prize for the listeners because I want every woman to have her birthright of feeling desired, taken care of, and special. I put together a little package. It’s got the Adored Wife Roadmap in it, and it’s got some audio recordings, exclusive audio recordings. I put it at lauradoyle.org/stellar for this podcast and for the listeners of this podcast. Download it for free.

I’m gonna go download it right now.  Amazing. Laura, this was so fun. It was such a pleasure getting to know you and learning from you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being alive. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.

And thank you, listeners. Remember to make a list of your desires. What would I love, and how can I express it? Be grateful for at least three things every day. Make a list of 20 things that make you happy and give yourself permission to do at least three every day and have a stellar life. This is Orion. Till next time.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

{✓}Highlight your partner’s positive traits to transform the dynamics of your relationship. Celebrate their strengths and watch how they elevate your connection.

{✓}Communicate your desires clearly and directly. Avoid hinting or expecting your partner to read between the lines, which can lead to confusion and frustration.

{✓}Respect is non-negotiable in any relationship. Treat it as essential as oxygen—without it, the relationship cannot thrive.

{✓}Cultivate a daily habit of expressing gratitude. Acknowledge and appreciate even the smallest efforts your partner makes, fostering a culture of mutual appreciation.

{✓}Incorporate “and I trust you” into your requests. This phrase shows faith in your partner and eases the pressure on them, promoting a more cooperative atmosphere.

{✓}Center your focus on personal happiness and well-being. A joyful and content partner naturally enhances the intimacy and connection within the relationship.

{✓}Employ simple yet effective phrases like “I would love…” to communicate your desires in a non-threatening manner. This technique can inspire positive responses from your partner.

{✓}Accept gifts and gestures from your partner graciously, even if they’re not exactly what you wanted. This openness demonstrates appreciation and recognizes their effort and thoughtfulness.

{✓}Invest in personal development and relationship coaching. These skills are crucial for overcoming past influences and paving the way for a healthier, more fulfilling relationship.

{✓}To connect with Laura Doyle and gain deeper insights into her relationship advice and resources, you can access the free “Adored Wife Roadmap” at lauradoyle.org/stellar.

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About Laura Doyle

Laura was the perfect wife—until she got married. When she tried to guide her husband on being more romantic, ambitious, and tidy, he began to avoid her. She took him to marriage counseling, and at one point, they were on the verge of divorce. It wasn’t until Laura started talking to women who had the kind of marriages she wanted that she experienced a turning point. Her husband returned to being the man who had once wooed her.

Laura went on to write several books about what she learned, unintentionally sparking a global movement of women who practice The Six Intimacy Skills™ to cultivate vibrant, loving relationships. What Laura is most proud of is her playful and passionate relationship with her hilarious husband, John—who has been dressing himself since before she was born.

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