A Personal Note From Orion

Welcome, dear Stellar Life listeners! In this episode, we are joined by a remarkable guest, Kim Witczak, a globally recognized drug safety advocate whose journey began after the tragic loss of her husband, Woody, in 2003. 

In this episode, Kim opens up about her personal story, which transformed her into what she calls an “accidental advocate,” highlighting the hidden dangers of pharmaceuticals. She dives deep into the complexities of drug safety, the importance of transparency and independent research, and the role of genetic testing in tailoring medications. 

Kim also shares her legal triumphs against pharmaceutical giants, bringing to light the systemic issues within healthcare. Join us as we explore the power of community support, the critical need for informed consent, and the inspiring ways Kim is making a difference in the world. 

This is an episode that underscores the importance of showing up, being curious, and following your heart to live a truly stellar life. So, without further ado, let’s dive into the show!

 

 

In This Episode

• [02:25] – Orion welcomes Kim Witczak, and the latter briefly overviews her advocacy and background.
• [10:35] – Kim explains how her personal loss and grief led her to become a drug safety advocate.
• [13:47] – Kim discusses unsealing confidential Pfizer documents and exposing FDA influences. She also expounds on the importance of discovery documents in litigation to understand corporate practices.
• [24:10] – Kim encourages for self-advocacy and informed consent.
• [27:09] – Kim critiques fear propaganda and stress on corporate accountability in healthcare.
• [32:19] – Orion and Kim tackle the need for independent research and reliable sources like RxISK and Mad in America.
• [36:57] – Kim shares her ongoing role on the FDA Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory Committee.
• [45:38] – Kim offers her top tips for living a stellar life.

Jump to Links and Resources

About Today’s Show

Hi, Kim, and welcome to the Stellar Life podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

Oh, thanks for having me. I’m really looking forward to this conversation with you.

Yes, me too. I would love you to share your crazy life story and how you found your purpose in a very unexpected way.

For starters, I like to call myself an ‘accidental advocate.’ The reason I say accidentally is because I would never have chosen the work that I do now. But sometimes, our greatest purpose chooses us. I kind of feel like that’s what happened in my life 21 years ago, in 2003. I had the life I dreamed and thought my life would be and created. I was happily married to my husband. We met in Chicago 10 years earlier. We both had successful careers.

I was in advertising. We were just starting to talk about having a family, and all of that came literally crashing down on a date that would forever be the before and my new life. That was August 6, 2003. I was out of town for work, and I called my dad because I hadn’t heard from Woody the day before. I’m like, “Hey, Dad, do me a favor, go check our house because I haven’t heard from Woody.” Literally, about an hour later, I was in the middle of a production in Detroit, and I got a call from my dad.

Our greatest purpose chooses us.

My dad was like, “He’s dead, he’s dead.” I’m like, “What do you mean?” He’s like, “Woody’s dead.” I’m like, “What?” My husband of 10 years was literally found hanging from the rafters of our garage, dead at age 37. I can’t even imagine what that site was for my dad. I can’t even imagine what it must have been like for him to call me. Because literally, in that moment, my entire life blew up. Like a bomb just went off.

I say that because you hear the word “taking his life.” He wasn’t depressed. He had no history of depression. Woody had literally just started his dream job with a startup company five weeks earlier. But he was having trouble sleeping and needed eight hours of sleep. He was a big sleep guy, and he wasn’t sleeping. He went to his doctor, and his doctor gave him the antidepressant Zoloft and said it would take the edge off and help him sleep. 

Ironically, I was out of the country when Woody first got put on those drugs. I was in New Zealand. It was a busy time in my professional career. I wasn’t even there. When I look back that night when I got that call from Woody, and at the time, I, of course, didn’t even think anything about the medications. But the coroner that night asked me a simple question, “Was Woody taking any medication?” “The only medication Woody was taking was Zoloft.” She proceeded to say she was going to take it with her.

It might have something to do with his death. My whole life had just fallen apart. I was like, “What? That didn’t even make sense,” at the time. But my brother-in-law, who was at my house that night, because at that point my parents called my sister and her husband, and because of chaos for our entire family, I realized that these kinds of deaths are not just one person. It’s the whole family whose lives get disrupted. 

My brother-in-law that night went home and just googled after the coroner said it might have something to do with his death. Eric just wrote the simple words “Zoloft and suicide” in Google. All this stuff came up, including the FDA hearings in 91. We knew nothing of this, right? We never questioned the drug. I think there when I say back to being out of the country when Woody was on the drug, I didn’t see any. I wasn’t there when he got put on it. When he was given a sample pack, the dose doubled. 

But I do recall one thing. When I got back from New Zealand, I was super excited to see him. I was home early from work, and Woody walked through our back door and dropped his bag on the floor. He was completely drenched through his blue dress shirt; he fell to the floor, he was bawling, and he was in a fetal position. “Kim, you got to help me. I don’t know what’s happening to me. My head’s outside my body,” and he’s bawling. 

It was the scariest thing. But at that time, I again didn’t know anything. We calmed him down, we prayed, we did yoga breathing. Woody called his doctor and asked him his head was outside the body. The doctor said, “You gotta give it four to six weeks to kick in.” That’s the story that changed everything in my life. But that was also the start of how I became an accidental advocate.

Wow, that’s a crazy story. I’m really sorry for your loss and such a loss that is unnecessary of this beautiful person that your husband was.

I always say it’s one of those things. I’ve been telling this story for so long that because I’ve lived with it for 20 years, I forget that when people hear it for the first time, or I do a lot of speaking with and telling the story now, I have to always remember to give space to breathe because it’s a pretty heavy story. I know the mission I’ve been on since, but it is a pretty heavy story that is still as relevant today as it was 21 years ago. 

But when I look back, Woody had no history of depression. Woody loved life. Everything in my body is intuitively new. There was no way that something didn’t make sense with how Woody died during this whole time. He was still running. He kept a running journal of how many miles his shoes had on. He also had this huge new business opportunity coming up. We just booked our 10th anniversary. We were going to Thailand on a trip in December and November with his parents. Nothing made sense. 

But everybody was saying, “Oh, he must have been depressed.” I’m like, “No.” When my brother-in-law came to me after he googled 91, and also I didn’t tell you, the night Woody was found on the front page of our newspaper, there was an article that said the UK finds a link between antidepressants and suicide in teens. That was on the same night as well.

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Looking back, I feel like now—of course, you would never say that to me at that point—God gave me this mission that night because Woody didn’t leave a note. We left notes all the time when we traveled. It was like these two pieces of information that night, plus an intuition that it didn’t make sense.

My brother-in-law told me that the FDA had hearings in 91 when it was just the emergence of violence and suicide in Prozac only. The FDA members said, “No, we don’t see any link.” However, every one of them took money from pharmaceutical companies that made antidepressants. The FDA never put warnings at that point. That really became our mission, which was to get warnings put on these antidepressants, which then led to many other things since then.

But first of all, how did you and your family deal with the grief?

I think this was for me personally. This was one of the ways that I dealt with my grief, that I had to do something with it. I think whenever there’s like an unsuspecting sudden death that makes no sense, you kind of go into investigation mode of trying to figure out what happened because your brain’s trying to process what the ‘f’ just happened. I think my family has a strong sense of faith and really kind of had to throw ourselves into faith counseling just to process it, especially a brutal death such as suicide because it’s just a little bit more complicated in its nature. 

I do remember trying to go to a suicide support group. I went once, and it felt literally awful inside me. They were kind of like, “Oh, poor lady, you never saw it coming.” They were almost as if I missed this whole idea that Woody was depressed or something. I was like, “I can’t go back there.” Eventually, I started going to a grief group at church. That really helped me get out of the pain and the story, but also a bigger purpose: trying to process pain. 

Again, when you go outside and help other people, it does something where you don’t sit in the grief and spin in it. Those were some of the ways that I initially dealt with, and our family initially dealt with it. But it was shocking because Woody was the son that my parents had never had. It’s just my sister and I, and we didn’t have kids. It was a pretty big loss.

How did you move? It seems like you had a very successful career at the production company. How did you shift to what you’re doing today?

Well, first of all, the agency that I was working with, I give them a lot of credit because they actually gave me almost five months off paid. It really showed you how much a company can actually help somebody. But they gave me that time off so that I could spend my time. I was on a plane almost every other week going to Washington D.C., where I met with members of Congress. 

When you go outside and help other people, it does something where you don’t sit in the grief and spin in it.

We were meeting with the FDA, especially since the UK was looking at antidepressants and suicide. It became like, “Why aren’t we looking at it?” Because I have a background in marketing, I was not afraid of telling Woody’s story and working with the media because the media had. It was a part of our, as I call it, battle for Woody. I also had a wrongful death failure to warn lawsuit against Pfizer.

Why do they sound so familiar? I know that company sounds so trustworthy, I guess.

It is one of the biggest drug companies in the world. We helped get the black box warnings put on the drugs in 2004. To this day, not all ages are warned, which is crazy because the drug doesn’t know that 24. There’s a difference between 24 and 25. It affects everybody differently. It was interesting to go through the lawsuit against Pfizer and trust me, going through legal and litigation and being deposed was brutal. 

But I will say this. One of the things is that my lawyers got documents out from under seal that these guys know about. They’ve known about this suicide. They hid it from the public. They knew the FDA even liked the information about helping people get off the medications. They knew about it, and they kept it from the public anyway. That was part of my motivation, too, because I’m like, “Wait, you guys knew about it and did nothing about it? My husband and I were pretty smart people, and we were completely blindsided.” 

We did what most people trust, right? That became like, “I gotta use this information,” and it was like using whatever I could. I think that was really helpful too. I think this idea, as in my career professionally as a producer and when I used to be in the account site, we’re kind of in the middle. It’s like a hub. I’m not the one that shoots the commercials. I’m not the one that creates the commercials. I’m the one that kind of pulls people together. 

I think that this idea is how you’re going to fix anything in life or bring any creative project forward, or you have to work as a team and know that we all have different parts in this story.  Unfortunately, the part I had to play was the role of the victim. Although I don’t like that word, victim, because I don’t feel like I was a victim. Woody was the unsuspecting victim, but I wasn’t. That was my role. But I needed all these other parts to help tell that story and fix this problem.

Weren’t you ever afraid of going after the big pharma because you heard stories? It’s like sometimes, like a drug cartel, people disappear, or people get money, talks, and it silenced people and doctors and all that. Weren’t you afraid to, even today, speak your mind?

That’s a really good question because I think a little part of me was naive about what it would be like taking out a company. But I also believe that my why was bigger than any fear. Like, “What was going to happen to me? You already took away my husband. My husband’s gone. He’s dead.” If something happens to me, and I remember always saying people were like, “Are you afraid?” 

Because at this point, when we were out in Congress, the Senate was starting to investigate drug companies and where all the monies that were going through pharmaceutical or to the academic institution, they were looking at the suicide. I thought, “If something happens to me, I’m not suicidal. Don’t worry if I get killed or if a plane goes down; go after these companies.” I think the combination of being a little naive and my why was bigger than my fear. 

You had already taken away my husband. But I’m going to tell you, they play dirty. Pfizer plays dirty. They would contact my grief counselor and ask them to send my grief notes to them. They will go all out. They went to my neighbors and asked them, like, “Tell us about Woody.” Even in my deposition, they’re like, “Oh, yeah, your neighbor said that he sweeps the driveway. He might have OCD.” I’m like, “Are you kidding me?” I laughed when they asked these questions, but they were seeking information. 

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The other thing that was interesting about that deposition was that, first of all, I had amazing lawyers. They’ve already taken on these companies and knew what was already in those files. They knew that I had a case against these guys. But during the first part of my deposition with Pfizer, they had me under oath. They didn’t ask me any questions about Woody. They wanted to know who knew what was out in D.C.

It was almost like I was gathering their information. What senators has she met? The crazy thing I had the most amazing, kind of almost as a spiritual. It was way bigger than me because they were like, “How did you meet Senator Grassley?” I’m like, “I don’t know. He just was at the airport at 5 am,” so every time they would ask me these funny things, I’d be like, “I don’t know. He was just at the airport. We ended up talking with him.” 

We got the Attorney General from Minnesota to join in our lawsuit. They’re like, “How’d you meet  Mike Hatch, the Attorney General?” I’m like, “I don’t know. It’s Martin Luther King Day, and he just happened to walk by us.” I’m telling you, there was so much magic. Pfizer, you guys can play. But guess what? I have truth on my side. You guys have to think about dotting your eyes crossing your T’s. The first time I learned that these companies, what is acceptable collateral damage, right? 

They didn’t care about Woody. They cared more about managing the story and their process and all of that. I remember I finally looked at them. “Can I ask you guys a question?” The lawyer said, “No, we’re the ones asking the question.” I said, “Well, since I’m under oath, I will answer your questions. But I’m going to say this. I don’t know what this line of questioning has to do with my husband. You haven’t even asked me anything about Woody. Please continue.” I think there was this yin and yang inside me that was like, “Take them on.” Then I was like, “Oh, my God. What just happened?”

Wow. What have you achieved since then?

Well, I would say the biggest thing that we achieved through this litigation was we got all these documents out from under seal that were confidential, internal documents that were part of discovery, but not discovery in my case. They were discovered in other litigation. But the chief justice in my case saw right through the documents because, for years, Pfizer would, in other cases, argue that that was a trade secret. 

The judge, in my case, released them. I got binders’ worth of documents on their letterhead. Not my words, not my story, their letterhead, their emails, and their behaviors that were shown in black and white. I could use them to help move the agenda forward of getting black box warnings put on these drugs and also to stitch the story together of how pharmaceutical companies and their behavior work. That was one. 

The other big thing that I think that we accomplished was during this time, in the early to mid-2000s, when the FDA intervened in private lawsuits against citizens. It’s called the preemption brief, which basically is a strategy that the individual lawyers who are fighting against the company would say, “Even if the drug company wanted to warn, the FDA wouldn’t let them.” 

That was the federal preemption brief. People don’t know where that actually came from. That actually came from a guy who was appointed by the Bush administration to go into the FDA’s chief counsel office. But before he got into that office, he took $300,000 from Pfizer and was able to start using this brief under the government strategy. But he came from the outside.

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Until Woody’s case, many other courts threw out these lawsuits because of this brief that was originally started by the creation of somebody on the outside who went to the FDA and created this brief or started using this brief and interfering in litigation; ironically, he was exposed. We helped expose him, and he went out, left the FDA and went on to become the global chief counsel for GlaxoSmithKline. I learned that whole thing about rotating doors, revolving doors.

They get fired from one company and work in a sister company.

Yeah, they never lose. FDA goes to the regulators, understands the regulators, and then comes back. That was the other thing. Ultimately, we prevailed over the use of that preemption brief because, as I said, other cases had been thrown out. Ours did not get thrown out. Pfizer tried using it a couple of times. It was really interesting, and it pissed the judge off. Eventually, the case was resolved, and I was able to go on and do my work, and I did my work today.

Those documents are powerful. They don’t live. What I’ve learned is that a lot of times during litigation, discovery and documents are really important, and they’ll do everything they can to keep those inside. The fact that we have all these documents that show behaviors is actually, I think, one of the strengths and the positive outcomes of our lawsuit.

It seems like a David and Goliath type of battle, and you’re winning, and yet the battle is still going on. Maybe not this drug, but then you have other drugs that are not antidepressants that can cause a lot of problems and even death. For the listeners, I mean, what can they do to know that they are taking the right medication? Or sometimes the elderly in your family take a bunch of a cocktail of medication, and you don’t have a medical background, you don’t know if it’s good for them or bad for them. If the way they feel is because of the medication or because of other things, what will be your advice?

Well, for one thing, you’re right. Because when I first started this, I thought this was just an issue with antidepressants, but really, it’s our whole drug safety system. All the medications that we take, I think it’s first and foremost, no one will ever care more about you or your loved one’s health than you. I think this idea I didn’t know to question; we blindly trusted that the doctor knew more about health than we do. I think it’s okay. 

Like all of these medications, especially when you’re talking about these antidepressants with psychiatric drugs like sleep meds and statins, we need to have a truly informed consent conversation. What does true informed consent mean? What are the risks and benefits? Like the benefit over the risk versus lifestyle. Are there other alternative things that you can do? Or this idea of doing nothing at all? What would happen if I did nothing at all? But that’s one thing that I think people should always ask for, which is the idea of informed consent.

Then one of the things with a lot of, and you mentioned it, the elderly, the whole polypharmacy, which is the idea that people are on, because right now it’s like people, they’re 65 plus or on five or so medications, and it just keeps going up as we age. A lot of times, those medications, because one thing that people don’t realize when they get approved remember these drugs are in the perfect situation to get the drug approved, meaning they’re not on other medications, so they’re not being tested. What are they with? What would happen if they’re on another medication that is not going to come on the market? Really, it’s how your body reacts. A lot of times, we’re getting a drug. 

You might be having a bad reaction to a drug, but then it gets layered on with another drug and another drug and another drug. I would always say if somebody is on multiple drugs and it doesn’t make sense or you’re starting to see that somebody doesn’t seem like it’s working, question the medication. Question the medication and do your research. There are some good websites. I also always tell people to see if there’s ever been any lawsuits or litigation against the medications because I think.

Wow, that’s a good idea.

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Yeah, the statins have had big litigation. The antidepressants have had litigation. I think you should go and do your research. I think that the big thing is just don’t blindly trust. Because I learned to trust blindly and without even questioning. I’m going to bring this right forward to the day of COVID with the vaccine.

That was the greatest social experiment ever to see if people would follow blindly if they were inflicted with enough fear and propaganda.

Yes, and so that’s exactly it. That should have been a place where the conversations. But we were lied to. We had fear. Always remember that health care is a big business. A big business. The only people these companies are truly accountable for are the shareholders and patients. They need customers like us to go to business. They also have to work within the government. Then, when you look at COVID, that was a lot of control. People didn’t know what emergency use authorization meant. When you hear these buzzwords, people should push back and not be afraid of pushing back. 

I saw marketing, probably because I’m in marketing, and I understand the US is one of two countries that allow drug ads just on television. I know drug ads sell. I know the history. I call it the selling sickness movement. Keep us sick because, you know, the cradle-to-grave strategy if you can keep somebody in this system that’s a lifetime customer. Right. A lifetime business. Anyway, and then I’m going to. Also, at the same time, when I say all that, there are also times when we need medication, right?

Yes, absolutely. From a marketing perspective, what did you see in the propaganda that was extremely useful in convincing people to try on whatever they were going to be injected with?

Well, I think the selling, the fear of death, and you’re going to die. I think that is just a basic. What is that? One of Maslow’s Hierarchy of selling and getting in there and getting into the psyche or you’re going to kill grandma. I think that we’ve also been told and believe that vaccines save our lives. There’s that initial propaganda from the beginning of our life, like, “Oh, that’s how come we didn’t get measles.” I think they knew that that would work for me. I remember when they were starting to say, bring in your vaccine card to get a donut a day at Krispy Kreme. I was like, “Wait, this is marketing. This is a sales promotion. These are tools that we use to help sell products.” I think there was that. I think using the media.

Pizza.

Yeah, free for everything. Like you could bring this in, and you could get. I remember there was one that was like a shot for a shot, like at a bar. Bring in your card, and you will get a shot for a shot. I was like, “Oh my God, what is this? That is not health.” Then I think the other thing with the media is the mainstream media; it was like a nonstop story. If you started studying, all of them used the same play sheet.

There is a video where they’re showing, I don’t know, like 30 or 40 news anchors saying the same exact script.

The exact same exact same. Then, something else came out. Suppose there’s censorship like Facebook. I know a lot of people that got harmed by the vaccine. The COVID jab.

Actually, my friend’s mom passed away really recently.

Yeah, I’m sorry. Because I’ve heard that, and I’m broken.

I heard multiples. This is not the first story.

There’s a lot of people. There’s a lot of people who’ve died. There are a lot of people who’ve lived with all these harms. I think back to when Woody died. We were able to commit. I mean, we didn’t have social media back then. There was none. We had to actually show up and be in community with people. Right. I realized in person that Woody’s story wasn’t a. It wasn’t an isolated situation. 

Marketing is just a tool that can be used for good, or it could be used for evil.

But we also worked and needed each other as we were sharing information. Well, if you’ve got this whole community of people and it’s growing, then you have somebody like Facebook shut it down, saying it’s misinformation. No, these are people’s lives. I don’t care. Like, you don’t get that response. You don’t get that ability to shut their conversations or their stories down. I think that was another piece. 

Then again, I’m going to say because I love lawsuits that do good. There were some of the lawsuits of Freedom of Information, which is a whole different type of lawsuit that came out during COVID or was used during COVID. But when I saw, and I don’t remember what organization it was, they got the marketing plan of how to get people to take the shot. It was using celebrities. It was the celebrity plan, all the professional sports teams. It was using churches and the black community. I was like, “Wow, it was so well stitched together.””

Yeah.

Anyway, those are all marketing and media propaganda machines. As I always say, marketing is just a tool. It’s a tool that can be used for good, or it could be used for evil.

Yeah. I just want to go back to what we talked about previously as far as researching the drug. You said there are some websites you recommend.

Yes. One of them is risk Rxisk.org, and you can go there and do research like the. Put the medication in, and it’ll send out if there are any adverse events or things that you should be aware of. They don’t take money from pharmaceutical companies. I always think that that’s really important. I also like, for any of the mental health drugs, I think there’s a website called Mad in America, and it is also really great. It was started by an investigative journalist, Robert Whitaker, who’s amazing. But if you go in and just Google, like, put in whatever medication, you’ll kind of get all kinds of things that pop up.

I think that’s another unbiased kind of source. When I say unbiased, I should say a lot of people have had experiences, and I think that harm is part of the experience that you do need to know about. Harms, which I think is really what we all are looking for. Of course, companies are going to tell you that the drug is good. Of course, the doctor is going to tell you it’s good. But this is where I think you really should actually look for harm in medicine. Mad in America, Risk, and Med Shadow is another organization that actually does a really good job of looking at medications.

Oh, that’s great. Is there one that can? I guess there’s no one that can tell you what happens if you take a few medications together. You have to figure it out on your own.

Yeah. That is what I think we all need to really pay attention to remember: when we give our power away, we’re giving our power away to something, which is the practice of medicine. Right, the practice of medicine. It’s a practice. Your body’s different than mine, and you have a different makeup than I do. That’s another thing. When I look back at COVID, when it was like a one-size-fits-all fits all, there will never be a one-size-fits-all-all treatment. We all need to remember that the next time.

That’s one thing. But there is a more and more of the genetic testing. I remember I had somebody whose company looked at your liver enzyme, and they could do something like, I think, the PY90 test or something where you could actually see if your body would process this medication. Truthfully, I think this should just be part of the standard if we’re going to get medications.

Have a grain of critical or healthy skepticism when you actually look at anything.

It’s like every doctor visit before you visit medication.

Absolutely. I think that’s something I would love to see that I should have even started with. We should know of our bodies because that was the one thing I didn’t realize even when the drugs came on the market. Why wouldn’t you want every single clinical trial participant to see if maybe there’s some information that the companies could even get before they put a drug on the market? This kind of person may not be acceptable or work for this medication.

Anyway, I think that genetic testing would be a fascinating way to see if drugs work for you. But ultimately, I think at the end of the day, I think as much as you can do to keep yourself safe and away from and healthy and away from these medications, the better. Our bodies have an amazing ability to heal the foods that we eat, the exercise, etc. I always say do whatever you do, you can do. So you don’t even get into that situation. Then you start Questioning.

Right. What about ChatGPT? Do you think it will give you the right answers?

Obviously, a lot of people are putting in this idea of ChatGPT. It’s only as good as the information, but I think it’s a good starting play. I mean, you can look there and see, but you have to remember, like, “Who’s controlling ChatGPT?” Who’s controlling the information, and then which server are you on? If you’re on ChatGPT or if you’re on one on Twitter or X. I like Ptechnology, but I have a grain of critical or healthy skepticism when you actually look at anything.

Where do you see yourself in the future? Are you gonna get a government job and try to work it all in from the inside, or where do you see yourself?

Ah, good question. No one’s ever really asked me that question because I’ve always done like my advertising still and this. I think I’ll still be in the space of drug safety because I think it’s really, really important. Today, I sit on the FDA Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory Committee, which, in 91, didn’t do its job. I’m just a public member. I take my job really seriously because I know that there are real-life consequences to new products coming on the market. But one of the things that I have said is because I’ve always been. I feel like I’m sometimes the only lone voice.

No. I might vote no or have critical thinking because of the way my brain thinks. And I always feel like I’m hitting a wall, like hitting my head against a concrete wall. Like why do I keep doing this? I said, not until we have somebody inside. Right inside. There has to be somebody inside the government who has the motivation to want to fix the current broken system. If there is, I would love to be a part of that because I have so many ideas.

Real change happens from the ground up by all of us coming together. But it does need somebody on the inside who is really motivated.

But it needs to have the motivation of somebody inside. In the meantime, I think it’s really about educating people and continuing to educate people. What you’re doing by having me on your show is helping people realize they are responsible for their information and their bodies. Real change happens from the ground up by all of us coming together. But it does need somebody on the inside who is really motivated. I would love to help with that. Inside motivated. I don’t know if I could ever imagine being an employee of the government, but so be it.

I would never have imagined we’d be a member of the FDA. That’s already a big step. So you never know.

You never know; you never know. But I think it really does need anything in life. If you want to change it, it’s better sometimes you, like, in the way you think about it. Maybe it’s the way I came about the work that I did, which is everything had to be blown up in my life for me to kind of, like, put things back together in a way that makes sense. Maybe over here, are we trying to just keep putting Band-Aids on things, or do we have to go upstream and look at what’s really causing us the issues? A lot of these things are downstream. If you don’t understand the downstream, I mean, I want to know who’s throwing the babies in the water upstream. Right. We’re just saving.

I think there are symptom things, like just putting Band-Aids on it, and then there are systematic things. We need to start over, rebuild it, and build it. That it’s with the intention of keeping us healthy. Like the FDA, you look at their mission statement; it’s about public health. But I’m like, it’s not really. Who are their real customers? The pharmaceutical companies, the food companies and the tobacco companies. And that’s the system that has been created. So we need to, like, go in and look at things differently.

Right. I think your work probably saved a lot of lives so far. Countless. And you’ll never know the extent of your reach for all the work you did in the last 20 years, even the first article in the newsletter that you did after your husband died. Do you ever just take a break and hug yourself and just say, I did so good. I’m really proud of myself.

Yes, I do. At the same time, I’m carrying on a mission for Woody, who always said, “I would never judge my life based on money or my career.” It’s my family, my friends and leaving the world a better place. I feel like I’ve honored him and hopefully have saved even just one life because I didn’t get a chance. I can do that and prevent somebody from feeling or having to deal with what our family did; then, I feel really good. I know that his life and the work that I’ve done were motivated and came out of a tragedy. I do recognize that this work is super meaningful because it literally can mean the difference between life and death. Sorry. I just felt like sometimes I could.

Magic happens when you’re showing up fully and not sitting and watching.

Thank you so much for sharing your heart and being such a lioness. I like the mix of feminine and masculine. I’m vulnerable, I’m sensitive, I have a lot of emotions, but I’m gonna fight like a lioness for what I believe in. I do feel like, so powerfully, how much your why is driven this whole. Driven your life and driven your mission and your purpose. I guess this is the answer for everyone who’s looking for a purpose. Just if you’re wise enough, you’ll. You’ll get to places, you’ll fight the biggest companies, you. You’ll do whatever you need to follow your heart.

Everybody’s purpose and what they’re gonna do is different. This happens to be mine. I always tell people, and they’re, like, judging, I go, “Just go find what speaks here. Go speak what speaks here to you. It might.” Whatever, like. Also, don’t ever think that one person and your voice don’t matter because that’s one of the things that I learned, which is that my voice does matter.

You can because that’s why I love butterflies. It’s the butterfly effect. I can inspire one person, then somebody else, and then it’s like it just keeps going out and out. That’s how we make the world a better place: by doing and speaking what we call ourselves, but also not being afraid to look at that big dark. The scary thing that keeps us from really, a lot of times, keeping us from doing what we should be doing, pursuing our heart.

Yeah, that’s beautiful. I mean, I have that struggle sometimes where I’m like, is what I’m doing actually helps. Do I really affect people? Even with this podcast, sometimes I don’t get a lot of feedback. Am I really, like, changing someone’s life? Then I’ll get an email every once in a while, or somebody will tell me something that will make me feel so good about this. But, yeah, you never know how you affect other people. You just have to keep doing it.

I was just going to say there are so many times that I say the same thing that you did, so it meant a lot to me that you actually acknowledged it. Right. Because I have wondered. I’m like, does anybody care? When I’m out at the FDA or some of these things, I’m like, it’s awful. Or I get people that. Friends, that’ll be after the whole COVID. They’re like, well, you were right about this. But you’re wrong on this.

I’m like, “Oh, my God. Why do I do this?” I have to remember my why. Those kinds of thoughts that come into our consciousness are just thoughts. When you just said, “Does anybody care that I do this podcast?” There’s somebody who does care. But more importantly, you’re speaking your truth. You’re doing something that’s calling you forward.

You know what I mean? I’m doing something, period. A lot of people are just watching from the sideline and just pointing fingers and telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, but they’re doing nothing.

Be curious about what triggers you. Be curious about what makes you happy. Be curious about what you hear in the media. Be curious and always question.

It’s so easy to judge. I love what you just said because that is one of my big things. I’m like, “You know what? I have to remember that.” At least I’m in the arena, and I’m getting punched, but I’m not sitting up on the stands. Like, it’s really easy to take my phone and like, you’re this, you’re that. No, you’re in the world. You’re showing up your magic. When you show up, that is magic. That’s where magic happens, showing up fully and not sitting and watching. Because life will be over, and then you’re going to never get another chance to do this again. You’re like, “Oh, I wish I would have been a little bit braver.”

That’s beautiful. I really love talking to you. Thank you so much for everything that you do and for everything that you share. I’m sure you saved at least one life for the people who are listening now. Before we say goodbye for now, what are your three top tips for living in a state that is still our life?

I think I just said one of them: show up, get yourself, be seen, be heard. You matter. When you show up, magic happens. That would be one. That was something that I’ve now learned. I would say another is to be curious. Be curious about what triggers you. Be curious about what makes you happy. Be curious about what you hear in the media. Be curious and always question. I think there’s something in that because you go deeper. I always say it’s like a never-ending tunnel. You’ll just keep going down and down if you stay curious. 

AI would say when something is driving you and pulling you forward, remember that pulling forward is your heart speaking. The head is like the thought saying you’re never going to matter. That’s not going to matter. That’s your roommate in your head. Just tell it to be quiet. But something’s pulling you forward. Go for it always. Every one of us came into this world as creative beings. I mean by that, it is not necessarily artistic but creative. Meaning that we have the ability to. We’re supposed to self-express ourselves and be seen. So that would be my third one.

Thank you so much. So beautiful.

Thank you so much for having me. I love the beautiful energy that you’re sharing and giving to the world. I love the way that you interview.

Oh, thank you so much. I love that. Thank you, listeners. Remember to show up because you matter. Be curious about yourself and your life. Answer the call of your heart and have a stellar life. This is Orion till next time.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

{✓} Question advertising. Ads influence us more than we realize. Always scrutinize TV drug ads and research independently before making health decisions.

{✓} Be skeptical of marketing strategies that use fear and incentives. Your health decisions should be based on facts, not emotions or freebies.

{✓} Push for transparent communication from pharmaceutical companies. Search for unbiased resources that can offer you clearer insights.

{✓} Investigate potential medication side effects thoroughly. Resources like Mad in America provide unbiased information that can be crucial.

{✓} Advocate for genetic testing to tailor medications. This personalized approach can minimize adverse reactions and enhance treatment effectiveness.

{✓} Focus on a healthy lifestyle to avoid unnecessary medications. Often, diet, exercise, and stress management can be your best medicine.

{✓} Be aware of how different medications could interact. Ask your healthcare provider detailed questions to ensure safe prescriptions.

{✓} Ensure informed consent in all treatment plans. Know all the risks, benefits, and alternative options before agreeing to any medication.

{✓} Engage actively in your healthcare decisions. Your informed participation can make a significant difference in treatment outcomes.

{✓} Visit Kim Witczak’s website, woodymatters.com, to learn more about her advocacy work and find her contact information.

Links and Resources

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About Kim Witczak

Kim Witczak is a globally recognized drug safety advocate, speaker, and force for change in healthcare. Her journey began after the sudden and tragic death of her husband in 2003 due to an undisclosed side effect of an antidepressant. This personal devastation not only opened her eyes to the flaws within the drug safety system but ignited a transformation within her. Determined to prevent similar tragedies, Kim became a relentless advocate, challenging the pharmaceutical industry and government agencies to be more transparent and accountable. She found her voice and purpose in the fight for patient safety, evolving from someone who had never intended to be a public figure into a powerful force, pushing for change at every level.

In her early advocacy work, Kim was instrumental in securing FDA Black Box suicide warnings on antidepressants in 2004 and 2006, amplifying the voices of patients and families harmed by unsafe drugs. Her personal transformation fueled a commitment to bring humanity back into healthcare, making sure that real stories and lived experiences shaped policy and safety measures.

Drawing on her 25 years in advertising, Kim founded Woodymatters, a grassroots organization dedicated to advocating for transparency, safety, and a stronger patient-centered approach to healthcare. Through her work, Kim gives a face to the real-world consequences of a system that often prioritizes profit over people.

Kim’s advocacy and expertise have been featured in leading publications, including The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Consumer Reports, and Reader’s Digest. She has testified before the U.S. Senate, presented to FDA Advisory Committees, and co-organized the groundbreaking “Selling Sickness: People Before Profits” conference in Washington, DC, uniting scholars, healthcare reformers, and consumer advocates to confront Big Pharma’s influence.

Today, Kim serves as a Consumer Representative on the FDA Psychopharmacologic Drug Advisory Committee, where she rigorously reviews new drugs, advocating for patient safety and accountability. She sits on the boards of several nonprofits, including MISSD.co, U.S. Patient Safety Network, Know More About Drugs, Re-Check Investigative Health Journalism, and the Institute for Scientific Freedom.  Her message—that sometimes purpose finds us—serves as a powerful reminder of the change one voice can make in the world.

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