A Personal Note From Orion

Welcome, beautiful souls! I’m thrilled to share this powerful conversation with Kristina Mand-Lakhiani, co-founder of Mindvalley and author of Becoming Flawsome. We dive deep into authenticity, finding your voice, and the beautiful dance between personal and professional life. 

Kristina shares her journey from Soviet Union politics to becoming a leading voice in personal development, offering profound insights on self-love, perfectionism, and the importance of being kind to yourself. This conversation is packed with practical wisdom for anyone looking to live more authentically and create meaningful impact.

Whether you’re a leader, entrepreneur, or someone on your personal growth journey, this episode will inspire you to embrace your unique path. Get ready for some serious wisdom drops! 

In This Episode

• [02:01] – Orion welcomes Kristina Mand-Lakhiani, the co-founder of Mindvalley. Kristina shares her journey pursuing international politics before transitioning to self-development with Mindvalley.
• [15:29] – Discussion on Kristina’s intuitive experiences as a mother and Orion’s story of ignoring her intuition, leading to a minor accident.
• [20:06] – Kristina elaborates on healing as a continuous process and its role in finding one’s voice.
• [22:08] – Kristina shares her perspective on balancing internal beliefs and external opinions, emphasizing the importance of personal values.
• [24:11] – Kristina and Orion discuss the importance of defining your brand and balancing authenticity with business practices.
• [28:43] – Kristina’s journey of balancing her various roles and the importance of maintaining authenticity while navigating different personas.
• [39:16] – Exploration of self-love, its distinction from selfishness, and Kristina’s personal experiences with writing her book during COVID-19.
• [44:40] – Insight into Mindvalley’s offerings and Kristina’s experience running the Mindvalley Book Club.
• [47:10] – Kristina discusses integrating work and life symbiotically and her efforts to offer similar integration to her team.
• [52:08] – Kristina offers top tips for living a stellar life.

Jump to Links and Resources

About Today’s Show

Hi Kristina. Welcome to Stellar Life Podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Orion, for having me.

It’s an honor and a pleasure to have you. Before we begin, please tell me a little bit about your origin story. Where are you from, and how did you become the powerhouse you are today?

I guess nowadays, the question “Where are you from?” is a little bit not as straightforward as it used to be. Currently, I’m in Estonia, so we’re having this interview with me being in Estonia. I consider myself to be from this country, although I was born in Belarus and have lived for a long time in Malaysia. That’s the Big Bang theory of my life. But when we talked more about the purpose of your question, I started my career in politics, and that was my interest—international politics. 

To understand that interest, you probably have to know that I was born and grew up in the Soviet Union, and that was international politics. International relations was the only way to see the world. I guess I was always curious. That was the path that I chose for myself. But when we were students, we met with Vishen, the famous founder of Mindvalley, and we married long ago. But when we got married, I followed my husband, as was the custom of that day and time. 

Because I followed him to the US first and then to Malaysia, my own career and my own plans abandoned them, and I started discovering new passions in life. I ended up in Mindvalley a little bit by accident initially, and then it kept sucking me in deeper and deeper. At some point, I realized, “Well, I guess that’s what I am interested in.” It might sound a little bit funny because it feels like I’m just following a path that was not even my choice. But the truth is that now, looking back, I’m a little terrified when I think of being in international politics.

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You would be a completely different person than you are today.

Yeah, it would have been different. I guess, as a person, I would probably have been similar. But still, that initial path wasn’t the thing that I ultimately would have liked to do.

I think it was divine intervention. Your teachings are all about being yourself, being genuine, and showing up as your genuine self, and politics is the complete opposite. It’s all about being proper, having a mask on top of the mask, and saying the right things. Completely two trajectories of your life. That’s amazing.

Politics in the days when I started was a little different because the Soviet Union collapsed, and Estonia was new to the Western world. It wasn’t as rigid as, for example, if people were listening, in the US, politics has very long roots and very established traditions, although not everybody follows those traditions. But with that said, I also think that we are quite multifaceted people, as my friend once said, “multi-talented.” 

The new school of thought suggests we should try different things and experiment with other hobbies.

I was just wondering today about the idea that we are often told we have to focus on something to achieve the pinnacle of mastery. But then, the new school of thought suggests we should try different things and experiment with other hobbies. I think I’m more of the school that we should try different things because we have so much, and occasionally, we are even contradictory. I think you can be yourself and be very different in different ways.

Yes, it’s possible, of course. You’ve been rubbing shoulders with the best self-development gurus in the world. Do you feel they are connected to their authentic selves, or do they have something to learn from you?

I think that’s a very, very politically sharp question, considering that I’m a co-founder of Mindvalley. We work with a lot of teachers. I would say that we all have a lot to learn from each other and not necessarily from gurus occasionally. Some of my biggest teachers are called Eve and Hayden, and they’re my children.

Mine, too. My little one is the biggest self-development experience I have ever had. It doesn’t matter how many seminars I took; he’s my teacher, for sure.

Well, we are invested in them. It’s not the same as just going around and playing transformation and personal growth. Here, you are face-to-face with reality. Either you change, grow, or keep having the same problems. Some of the most trying people are also great teachers. The question is, do we have the framework to learn or do these learnings come in the form of trauma that makes us maybe more closed and more afraid of experiences? 

Now, when it comes to teachers that I’ve worked with and have personally met—most of the personal growth teachers and authors and the big names—I strongly believe in the idea that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” So, you usually get the experience that you expect from the interaction. I can’t say that I love all the teachers. There are teachers who rub me the wrong way, but generally, I have noticed that it is up to you to get out of the interaction what you want to get. 

We all have a lot to learn from each other.

It’s very easy to go either way and maybe adore someone without any dose of critical thinking or questioning. It’s as easy to go and dislike everything about someone. So I think teachers are just humans, just like everybody else. One thing I can tell for certain is that a lot of them have stories just like every single one of us—everyday mundane stories about mistakes, flaws, and imperfections. They all have their stories.

Yes, because I had times in my life when I met my guru. They say don’t meet your heroes. I met many of my heroes that I would have a conversation with, and I felt so full and alive. But a few of them were draining. It was very disappointing because I came with a certain expectation for who the person was, and then it turned out to be maybe more self-serving or different. When interacting with people, what type of expectations do you have?

You’re right that not every teacher is exactly the same in real life as they are. Let’s say it is on stage or in front of the camera because there is such a thing. It’s a trigger as a stage persona. There are some people who are maybe more outspoken on stage, a little bit more energetic and not the same in real life. It happens. Although I wouldn’t write it off as a lack of authenticity. I guess it’s what helps them to do their work on stage. 

The other aspect is that, unfortunately, whether we like it or not, marketing is an important part of business, and personal growth is also business. So, knowing how to sell yourself or self-serving yourself is part of your success, whether you like it or not. But most of the biggest, most famous names are very good at selling themselves, and they would be doing that even in settings where you don’t expect them to because that’s how they became so famous. 

They grew their audience by keeping business in mind. Of course, there are also very inspirational, wonderful people who don’t care about that. But then, they might not be such famous names. So, it is probably part of the game now. When I interact with people, what I expect from them depends more on the circumstances than anything because I’m just a human when it comes to work. 

I try to be in good shape because it’s a work environment, and here, you can put yourself together and put your best face. I have had experiences where I also do podcasts as a host. So, I understand your current position and that success depends so much on your guest and how you interact with the guest. I’ve had guests who have been very easy to interact with, with whom it’s easy to talk, and some guests who have been very demanding and trying and hard, and it is exhausting to keep working with people like that. But then I’m also human, and sometimes I interact with people, not in the work environment, and there I can be both in a good mood and friendly, and I can also be moody and not in a good mood. It happens.

Yeah, me too. I take responsibility for myself, too, obviously. For some days, I feel different, and I’m not my best self. And that can affect. It takes two to tango, for sure. I was just curious about your view of it because you really are at the top of the top, working with the top of the top.

Whether we like it or not, marketing is an important part of business, and personal growth is also business.

It’s interesting because it’s the top of our very narrow niche. I’m now applying to universities because I also value academic background in everything we do. I think it’s a tango here as well between your intuition and what you feel and what actually has been researched a little more in-depth. To be honest, yes, it’s the pinnacle in one very narrow niche. But if we talk about the science of life or the understanding of life, then there is so much. 

I just recently started doing a book club, and I discovered that book authors are a completely different breed of authors compared to the speakers with whom we mostly work. So it’s a huge universe, and there are still constellations that I have visited yet.

Beautiful. It’s very sweet because you come across as very humble. You know where you are, but you understand there are more constellations.

I absolutely admire people who can come across as very confident, and you can’t argue with them. You’re like, “Okay, it’s good for business for sure.” But on the other hand, there is a very slippery slow cult delusion. It’s a dance. Everything is a dance. Life is a dance.

I like that. I actually use the same metaphor. I see life as a dance. Do you dance?

I love dancing. But I guess when I talk about life as a dance, I mean couple dance. When you dance, you can move in any direction. But when you’re talking about classical dancing, I like these comparisons because dance doesn’t have a direction per se. It’s you move forward, you move backward, and you move sideways. That’s why I like this analogy.

How did you find your voice on this journey from politics to self-development? How did your teaching was downloaded to you?

It’s a process that keeps happening because there are different roles when we talk about the voice. I guess I have always been opinionated and outspoken, but initially, it was more within my private circle.

Everything is a dance. Life is a dance.

Then I found my voice in the Russian market because, for a long time, I was the face of Mindvalley in the Russian language, not talking about Russia as a country, but more about the Russian language, which is actually spoken in many countries. That was probably my first professional experience of finding my voice. At some point, I discovered that it wasn’t completely my voice because, as the face of Mindvalley in a different language, I was more of a loudspeaker or translator, converting someone else’s voice into a different language. When I discovered myself in the English language stage, I realized that the only thing I could talk about here was my worldview, perception, and teachings.

That’s when I realized that there is more to a voice. There’s a voice about being decided and opinionated. There’s a voice about being professional at some point and at some level. Then, there’s a voice where you actually combine those two, the professional experience and your opinions, and you actually come up with something new, something that didn’t exist, maybe in this world. Later, I discovered that there was another voice that wasn’t very loud for a really long time—the voice of me as a woman. 

Here, I’m talking from a very specific feminist point of view because, as I mentioned, I didn’t make any disclaimers, but I did follow my husband when we got married because that was the world in which I lived. Lately, I’ve been questioning the decisions I had made before, where I had chosen someone else’s agenda over my own personal needs and desires. I’m still finding a lot of parts of my voice. I guess it’s a work in progress.

That’s beautiful. I like the differences between finding your voice just on stage in front of the Russian crowd and finding your voice as your authentic voice, as well as finding your voice within the revelation of your life and its reflection. It’s really awesome. I love that. And finding your voice as a woman—and what a woman is? That’s a whole new story. That’s like a dance, too. It’s very flexible and changing. There is no definition of who you are and who you can be as a woman.

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Yes. I guess part of the reason that voice has become more prominent is that my daughter is now 11. When kids are small, we are not as dominated by their preferences. But as she’s growing, I’m noticing how this gendered agenda is being translated to children even in our day and age. It’s just a little more important for me now because my daughter is growing up.

That goes back to the idea that our biggest teachers can be our kids, somebody down the street or even our parents. It’s interesting that when I laid my eyes on my notes, which are here in front of my computer, it said, “Using your voice.” And exactly, when I looked at it, you said that, and I was like, “Wow, she’s psychic.” That’s awesome. Do you feel like you have psychic abilities?

I have some. I’m not focused too much on developing them. I’ve experienced them. There is also a school that actually helps you develop psychic abilities on a practical level because I believe that abilities are good when you can practically use them. But I do know that I have a very strong intuition, and I trust it. It’s just that I’m also a perfectionist. Sometimes, I am trying so hard that I’m in the way of my own technique, abilities, or intuitions.

Usually, when I relax and just let go, it comes across as stronger. But I’m not researching that too much. There are teachers that I think are good, and I don’t dismiss them as nonexistent, but I do not use them. I can’t rely on it very much because I haven’t developed these abilities to be practical.

What does connection to your intuition mean to you? How do you connect?

As a mother, of course, you experience intuition, but generally mostly rely on it in relation to myself, with myself. For example, if we take myself and my body, and I consider my body as an object or separate unit, then in that relationship, I trust intuition a lot. And as I said, as a mother, but because I do not research the topic too much, it’s more like an occasional surprise occasionally. Like today, I had a few experiences where I thought of someone or something and it showed up on my phone quite a few times back to back. I was thinking, “Okay, that’s an interesting streak of psychic abilities.”

Today, before I came here, I was kind of late. I usually arrive a little earlier before the interviews, but I was just running in the door five minutes before our interview. I’m kind of rushed, but I was able to put my makeup on and say, “Oh, look at me, I was here for an hour.” No, I wasn’t. But I took a taxi and saw something on the road, like a big rock thing. I looked at it, and there was something in me that said, “Move it.” 

But it was kind of a busy street. I didn’t feel like doing it. Then the taxi arrived, and guess what? The moment it pulled out, I heard something stuck under the taxi. That’s why I was late. It took a while to figure out what it was. I kind of knew what it was, but then he went down. The poor guy’s hand was bleeding, but he was so kind. I was like, “Oh, don’t worry about me. I got a band-aid here.” He was a very sweet guy, but we were a little bit late to come here. But I knew it. I had the sense of like, “Move that rock from the road.” I didn’t do it. I was just lazy.

Healing is akin to personal hygiene because we get bruises, knocks, and occasionally even wounds as we live because that’s part of life.

I’ll share a story that I sometimes share. When my son was younger, I was going to Amazon with him. It’s a very remote area with very little connection to the outside world. As a mother, I was worried about appendicitis. So I called my doctor and asked about all the symptoms so that if it happens, I’m warned and can act quickly. Of course, we traveled there. Nothing happened. But about a year or two later, somebody called from my son’s school, and they said I had to pick him up very quickly because he was sick.

The moment I saw him, I knew it was appendicitis because I asked for symptoms, and it was. They did this surgery, and everything is fine, of course. But for years after that, I was wondering what was at play. Was it my motherly intuition that warned me that I should know what it was because it was going to happen, or was it the reverse where I was so paranoid about it that I actually called it upon my son? 

What I’m saying is that I do not know how to use it practically. Unfortunately, I have experienced both intuition and psychic abilities. I know there are really good teachers who have actually also taught the Silva Method. I get it. But for me, it’s more of a party trick currently because I do not know how to use it when I need it. But when I hear it, I try to honor it. I’ve had cases where I feel so uneasy that I would cancel something without knowing why I am so uneasy. I never got the proof that there was a reason to cancel. But at least I trust when my intuition says, “Don’t do that.”

Amazing. In your process of finding your voice, did you have to go through some healing journey, healing some epigenetic family patterns, or something like that?

I’m a very nerdy co-founder of Mindvalley—very academic and pragmatic. Well, because I was brought up in the Soviet Union, I usually don’t dig deeper than my own experiences. That’s when we talk about epigenetics or, let’s say, our relationship with the family. I do have huge respect for my ancestry but in a very different format. When it comes to finding my voice or healing, healing is probably more important. I think healing is not a university degree.

It’s not like, “You’ve healed, now you get a certificate, and you can live your life happily ever after.” For me, healing is akin to personal hygiene because we get bruises, knocks, and occasionally even wounds as we live because that’s part of life. If you have anything meaningful in life, it usually comes with a degree of danger that will bruise or hurt you. So, healing is something that we have to do on a regular basis. 

The beauty of life is that there is no one recipe for every single situation.

We wake up in the morning, full of energy, and live our lives, and then in the evening, we need to rest. So, healing is the same. It’s like a living experience: healing, living, experience, healing. And, of course, it keeps happening to me when it comes to finding my voice. Sometimes, it is a result of healing. Sometimes, it is a result of thinking. Sometimes, it’s a result of letting go, and then your intuition is in play. And sometimes, it’s a result of actually putting in more effort. As I said, it’s a dance, and the dance moves don’t always go in the same direction. And that’s the beauty of life. There is no one recipe for every single situation. Like with the dance, you have to listen to the music, see your environment, and listen to your partner.

I love that. Now that you have found your voice, do you still care about what other people think, or did you have to heal that, too?

I do care about what other people think.

Me, too. I wish you didn’t.

It doesn’t mean that I would always do things considering what other people will think as the first, let’s say, factor in making decisions. Probably not. Also, there are degrees. I care about my closest family because I care about their well-being. In that aspect, of course, I care what they think. That is not to say that I wouldn’t make an unpopular decision if I had to, but I would still care about them being hurt or disagreeing with me. 

It doesn’t mean I will change my mind if I think this is the right decision. A very simple example would be when you have to discipline your children, right? They might not like it, but you have to do it. There are degrees of complexity to that situation. I care about what my closer circle thinks, as in friends, colleagues, partners, and maybe even podcast hosts and podcast guests. Like every human being, I want to be liked. I want to leave people with a good experience.

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Again, if we disagree, there are choices to be made. Do you want to disagree respectfully and still try to make it a good experience, or do you disagree and feel that there’s disrespect? In that case, certain emotions will be triggered, and you might dislike an experience as much as the other person does. Then there is, of course, the wider public. I do care what they think, of course. But unfortunately, a lot of the time, we never have control over what other people think. 

What I mean, unfortunately, is that a lot of the time, people don’t even have time to form their opinions properly and a lot of the time, you have to choose to be misunderstood because your values are more important than what other people think. But do I not care about that? I do.

When it comes to building a brand, what tips would you have for going with your truth, even if it’s not the popular vote or even with an image? Right now, I’m rebranding this podcast because it’s been running for a long time, and I’m choosing between two images. One is the proper, and everybody’s saying this is the right one, and the other is a little extreme. And I’m like, “Wow, I kind of like that one.” Even my closest circle likes the other one, but I like that one. So, going with my truth and being bold with my marketing and how I present myself, what are some tips for doing that or branding in general?

Our brain really loves shortcuts and simplifying things.

The classical answer to that question would be, if you don’t shape your brand, your brand is going to shape you. Whether you have consciously decided and gone in that direction or it just happened to be, it has become a brand. That’s the classical answer to this question. Now, another way to look at it is that there are different businesses and ways to do business, and different people make their choices based on their values and what is important to them. In my case, I’m a very lazy person. I prefer to be authentic because this is the easiest thing to do.

The last thing I would think about you is being lazy.

Oh, yes, I am. I’m proud of that because there are benefits to that. Of course, that doesn’t mean I don’t work hard occasionally, but if I can optimize or delegate or not make unnecessary moves, I will do that because that’s less effort. And actually, if we are a little nerdy, then our brain does the same. Actually, our brain really loves shortcuts and simplifying things. So look at lazy. Not as in slob who is sitting in pajamas.

Oh, yes. You just optimize things. You don’t need to work so hard to get the same result. You work smarter, not harder.

From that point of view, the easiest thing to do is just be yourself and you don’t have to try to be something else that doesn’t expend an extra effort. I like an illustration of that. There was a scene in X-Men: First Class. There is a scene between Mystique, played by Jennifer Lawrence. There is a scene where Magneto, I think, is his name. So, if you look it up, it’s a really beautiful scene. She’s in the gym doing something. 

She’s in her blonde girl form, which is not her actual shape, so she doesn’t shock people. Then, Magneto manipulates the machinery so that it falls. In the moment of need, she transforms into her blue, spiky, natural form. The point of that scene is that Magneto tells her that she is wasting too much energy trying to be something that she is not. “Why don’t you embrace your natural shape? Because that energy could be used on something much more important, or in that particular context, it could save your life.” 

So that’s my logic. That’s why I choose to be what I am. But then again, I’m also not as big on social media as some other authors who might have made other decisions because there are a lot of examples of authors from the end of the 20th century where speakers were taught to be in a certain way, because that was the way that was selling. In fact, if you look at the old sales scripts, which were very much to the dot, how you have to present yourself, how you have to smile, how you have to stand, how many times you have to knock on the door, all these things. 

Because there is also a theory that there is an optimal way to do that job, and some people choose that. A notable example of that is Harv Eker, who is an amazing teacher. I actually have huge respect for him.

Yeah, I know his daughter. I met his daughter a few times.

Harv doesn’t like to work as hard right now, but he has trained a lot of people to replace him. If you have bad eyesight and are sitting at the back of the room, you wouldn’t even tell it isn’t Harv because they are clones of him. There are choices to be made, and there are words to be told about every choice because my choice is made based on my own. I do not want to waste energy when I don’t think it’s necessary—hard choices made because this is optimal. 

Life has shown that this brings the best results. From a business point of view, it also makes sense. And I’m a businesswoman as well. And sometimes I do things I know I have to do or follow the script because that’s how you make money. I wouldn’t frown upon either choice you make. I’m sorry that I’m using Harv as an example, but it’s a positive example. I don’t think he’s any less authentic in that shape or form. That is him. Maybe in private life, he’s different, but as I said, just because somebody has a stage persona doesn’t make them any less real. That’s just as real. He’s a teacher there, and maybe he’s a parent or a husband at home. We do play different social roles. And you, as a podcast host, teacher, and parent, are probably also quite different personas.

I understand that there is. On one hand, you don’t want to invent the wheel. On the other hand, you want to be your authentic self. One day, I’ll understand what being my authentic self means. I mean, I’m trying, but, you know.

The people who will be left in the Otzi and remembered later in history are not the clones of everyone else, right?

Yes.

I’m reading Marcus Aurelius right now because I was curious about the origin of Stoicism, which I have huge issues with. But that side story was apart. I was thinking, this guy was active 2,000 years ago, and of course, he references certain philosophers and people of his time. And I was wondering how interesting it is because when we live in this time, there are certain celebrities, people who are very successful, who have a lot of money, who have a lot of maybe followers. 

We think that this is it, then it usually takes 100, 200, or 500 years later when the true gems stay on the surface and everything else is forgotten. Now, if we think 200 years ago, for example, Jane Austen, one of my favorite authors, wasn’t famous, popular, or rich when she was alive. She became what she is right now. Later, the history seethed through all the material that was available in her time. So the same will be true about us. 

Maybe the people we think are on top of it will be just the husks. They were famous and rich. But it’s unique and unusual who will change the trajectory of the conversation and be remembered by history, but we will never know that.

I love that. That’s beautiful. I never thought about it like that. That’s super cool. How do you find your uniqueness, your awesomeness, your special?

It’s not hard to find. It’s hard to be at peace with it.

Yes, maybe that. How do you become at peace with that?

The worst part is that we learn to dislike ourselves if we hide behind our facade.

I just get so tired that I give up. It’s like holding on for your dear life, and then your hands shake, and your fingers start hurting, and then at some point, you just let go, and then you suddenly discover that you’re flying. I guess that’s the thing I’ve noticed.

Oh, that’s a beautiful metaphor.

I love that it works all the time. I’m a perfectionist. I find it hard to live like that, but it is just part of me. I keep reminding myself to let go, but I usually learn it the hard way when I get so exhausted trying so hard to make it all work that I just say, “Okay, whatever, and then things fall into place. The same goes for my uniqueness. You hide it. And then, at some point, you’re like, “No, it can’t be hidden anymore.” And then you just learn the way I said, you know, I’m lazy.

I used to be afraid to say that phrase because it is surrounded by so much dogma. But it is part of who I am and makes me unique. It has also shaped many of my decisions and choices. But it is also a gift if you can learn to embrace it and not villainize it.

There are so many people in the world and so many opinions, and somebody will be attracted to a facade. Someone will attract it to who you are, and it’s much easier to live your life as who you are than to hold onto a facade for dear life. It’s too much.

The worst part is that we learn to dislike ourselves if we hide behind our facade. And that’s the part with which I have the biggest issue. I’m fine when people do whatever they do as long as they love who they are in the essence. I’ve noticed, and again, I can’t reference any research, that people who put too many masks up or have too many personas are afraid to show their true selves. Usually, there is also a dislike for that true self somewhere behind them.

I used to live in Japan, and I used to wear really fun items like belts and colorful clothes; not an extreme Harajuku style, but really fun. I had a really cute style back then, and I went to New York to study acting, and everybody there wore black and sweats and simple. So I really stood up, and with my accent, too. And so I tried everything to be like everybody else. I start like all those fun items when we’re just in the closet. I was wearing sweats and black shirts and working hard on my accent to fit in. 

Experiences are given for us to learn something.

And then I figured out, “This is not the way to be. It doesn’t matter how much I try to fit in. I’ll never be like them. I’ll never have this perfect American accent or their American history. I’ll never fit in. I’ll always be me.” For me, it was a process of self-discovery. I feel like the process of self-discovery never ends because you always find new things about yourself till the day you die.

Hopefully, it will also change as we live. We have experiences. I think experiences are given for us to learn something. So, if we stop changing, that would be pretty terrible.

Yeah, and boring, for sure. I had to learn to be myself again, and that’s it. I just learned that being a chameleon doesn’t work. And trying to please people too much doesn’t work. Of course, I still have this part in me that is a pleaser. But now she has learned to have more boundaries and to learn more about who she is. And I’m in a much better place than I used to be.

You just mentioned something that is also a controversial topic. In a way, they’re pleasing. I live in Europe, and we have a slightly different approach to civility here. Sometimes, we confuse just trying to be civil to each other with pleasing. It’s a matter of personal perception of what you consider pleasing. But I think part of pleasing is neglecting or betraying yourself.

Yes, erasing who you are in order to please someone or make them feel comfortable. “Oh, don’t play so big because they will feel threatened or uncomfortable. So let me shrink myself just a little bit more to make everybody okay, but does never work.”

But with that said, there is the other extreme behind this idea of “I refuse to.” To be a pleaser, we start forgetting just simple things, such as respect and consideration of other people’s feelings. And here, because I’ve experienced that too, when people tell you something very unpleasant, they say, “Oh, I’m just being honest,” or “That’s just who I am.”

I just want to put it in people’s hearts that there’s a difference between being civil and respectful and being a people’s pleaser because you can, with respect, eject yourself out of the situation that you think is not benefiting you without trying to be unpleasant or teach anybody lessons. If anything, I’ve learned over my life that I don’t want to teach people if they’re not willing to get a lesson. And sometimes it’s so tempting to say something just so that you know, “Oh, I just want you to become better.” 

But yeah, I have a love-hate relationship with this whole thing because, on one side, I get it. It’s a slippery slope. Also, when you’re trying to be nice to people, you can occasionally be in a situation where you’re wondering, “Am I just betraying myself currently?” I do not know why I went on that. Maybe I just came from London. We were doing exams with Eve, and it made me think about how nice it is to live in a world where people actually have respect for each other.

It’s a balancing act or a dance, like you say, where you have to know who you are. You want to walk your path. You want to be considerate but not erase yourself so others will feel something. You cannot make anyone feel a certain way about you as long as you think connected to your heart and are genuine, caring, and loving but still have boundaries, and you know who you are. That’s the work. 

It’s okay to occasionally find yourself making a mistake as long as you can eject yourself out of that situation.

Sometimes, you have to remind yourself every day. When you come to a place where, “Am I pleasing or am I kind right now,” you’ll always have the answer if you take a moment just to breathe and connect to your body and your intuition and be like, “Okay, now I’m good,” or “Now I have to course correct,” or “This is what I choose today.” What I choose today does not mean I’m going to choose it tomorrow. But I always know that I have a choice. My awareness is the key to the way I handle everyone and every situation.

I think the key word you said is, “You can course correct,” because it’s okay to occasionally find yourself making a mistake as long as you can eject yourself out of that situation. Say, “I’m not doing that again.” It’s fine. I can tell you that experience, again, no research, but that’s my personal experience. A lot of very civil and polite people are actually pretty strict with their boundaries, and it’s not a danger to stay nice to people, but remember what is important to you, right?

I always like to be kind. I’m a kind person. I have a good heart, and I like to have people feel good around me until they overstep and then I’m not so kind. But overall, I’m really kind, and that’s how I want the world to be. I want this world to be a really nice kind place so everybody will benefit from it.

It starts with being kind to yourself.

Yeah, tell me more about that.

Well, if there is any pain out there, it’s usually because we are not kind to ourselves. But it’s a long conversation. I’ve talked about self-love for many years, and this is the one big question that everybody has: “What’s the difference between self-love and being selfish, self-centered, or egocentric?” It’s not a very simple thing to answer. I wanted to say that the world will be a better place if we learn to be kind to ourselves first. 

If there is any pain out there, it’s usually because we are not kind to ourselves.

A very simple answer will be a little bit of a leap because I will not bridge the gap between what I just said and what I’ll say next. A very simple example is that we usually treat the world the way we treat ourselves. So very often, when we are judgmental or critical of others and if we pay attention to our self-talk, we will notice that we’re pretty judgmental and critical of ourselves. Well, if you look around, you will notice that it’s almost like a rule of nature. 

People who are patient with the world tend to be patient with themselves. People who are impatient with the world tend to be impatient with themselves. That’s why I keep saying that you have to learn to be kind to yourself. Once you learn to be kind to yourself, it will be much easier to be kind to the rest of the world.

That’s a beautiful point. The world is definitely a mirror. Our experiences are usually mirrors of what we have going on inside. That explains why we believe in the Matrix. We affect our reality, and we create our reality. Yeah, that’s a different conversation. But I want to know more about your book. How did you birth your book into the world? And maybe you can share a little bit about it.

It’s like with babies; you carry it in your belly forever, and then suddenly, it comes out. Well, I guess in my industry, it is almost like a must to write a book. So, it was somewhere in my belief system that a book would be coming. But I also felt that I needed my own authentic message for that. As I said, it’s like with the kid; you’re never ready for the kid. You’re never ready for the book. But COVID helps us because we have a lot of time on our hands and less of other random movements.

I just sat down and did what I was planning to do. And also, I guess the message was ready and mature by then. But I never imagined what it was going to be. I just wrote a book because I knew I had to. It was much later when the first round of editing was done, and I was ready to start printing it when a friend suggested I look into traditional publishing. Now, when Hay House picked up my book and wanted to publish it, it changed the game because when I wrote a book, it was more like writing a diary. 

The same Marcus Aurelius I was talking about, His Meditations was his diary. It was published hundreds of years later as a book. So, when I was writing my book, I wasn’t thinking of it being published. When I started publishing it with Hay House, it became a completely different story. It was a long path. I don’t want to say the word conscious, but it was like letting go and going with the flow and seeing where that flow will take you. So that was my book path.

Beautiful. And what did you learn from writing that book?

That was a long process, and there was so much to learn along the way. Both little practical things about myself and how I function and about life. If I write something like I just said, it’s almost the law of nature that if we are patient with ourselves, it’s easy to be patient with the world. If I wrote it down in the book, it would actually launch me on a path of trying to research. Is there any research that should prove that? 

I guess one of the biggest learnings from that book was that I am very passionate about psychology as a science and an academic discipline, not just popular psychology, the way we pass it from mouth to mouth. But that nerdiness came out. I am actually now applying to universities as a continuation of that experience. I wanted to write another book, but after I had done my book, I started a book club by Mindvalley as a result of my own book journey. 

This year, I have read so many books in personal growth as the face of the book club, and I’ve discovered that the things I like about nonfiction books are quite peculiar. I probably would have written my book differently after this experience, but I’m not ready for the second one. For me, a book is an ultimate form of self-expression because this is something that has the potential of being left behind for history. But there are as many writers as many different types of books. There are books that are written for business, teaching purposes, and many other purposes. For me, it’s a form of self-impression.

It’s art. I love it. A lot of time, we teach the thing that we have worked on or are still working on. You mentioned perfectionist a few times in today’s conversation, and your book is Becoming Flawesome, so that’s pretty beautiful.

Well, I believe that considering how intensely perfectionist I am, I think I’m doing pretty well. So, if you were to learn about letting go, learn it from someone who’s been there.

Healing is not a degree in university – it's like personal hygiene because we keep getting bruises and knocks as we live. Share on X

Beautiful. Maybe you can share a bit about Mindvalley with the people who have not heard about it yet.

Well, yeah, Mindvalley is probably one of the world’s biggest platforms for personal growth and transformation education. We mostly exist in the form of online courses.

Amazing. We’re members, so we love it. We’ve been to some of the events, too.

Events are a little bit more of a unique experience and not as accessible because, of course, events have limited numbers, and also they are in a certain location. But the majority of our 20 million followers are actually online, and we have students all over the world. When I was doing my book tour in the southern states of the US, in very obscure cities, I didn’t know existed before, I discovered that, yes, we have followers and students all around the world, but I guess the most accessible and the best way to interact with Mindvalley is to become a member. 

When you become a member, you get access to, I think, 50 to 70 plus courses. I do not know their current number because they change as well. We take some courses down and put new courses up. So we have a lot of courses in personal growth, transformation, and everywhere from very pragmatic disciplines like nutrition and exercise, for example, to much more spiritually aligned and maybe new age things like intuition, manifestation, and things like that and everything in between—train your memory, optimize your brain and your psychological causes, relationships, and everything. That’s a very short description of what Mindvalley is.

The courses are phenomenal. They’re unbelievable—really incredible teachers.

We are privileged to work with the world’s best teachers because we’ve built the brand for a long time and have the platform. Maybe we are making it harder for teachers to create courses. You can still, as a teacher, have your live events, but in an online space. We literally have the picks of the best.

I actually studied personally with two of the teachers on your platforms: Marisa Peer and Sheila Kelley. There are probably some more that I didn’t even know were on the platform. So, these are really great teachers and an amazing platform. How do you balance or dance between family life and being a mom, holding on to this business, developing it, and doing everything you’re doing? Now you’re going back to study, and how do you do all that?

Well, I don’t balance. It’s all life for me. Of course, I’m speaking from a privileged position as a co-founder and my own boss. However, I try to create a similar environment for the people who work with me on my team. I believe that life shouldn’t be a dichotomy between professional and private life activities. It has to be symbiotic and synergetic.  It’s not good either for your private life or for your professional life if you constantly have to be in a battle between the two, and very often, when we ask about the balance, it is the question of the battle. That said, of course, when I’m at work, I tend to dive deep and be in that employ. So it is distracting. Of course, if you are doing an interview and have a baby who wants to be breastfed. I get it. There are situations where you have to compartmentalize these two things.

That’s a word that is really hard for me. It took me years to say it.

I can’t even say it. It wants the tongue action. But it’s good if you don’t have to be so strict about these boundaries. But now I also have to acknowledge that there are a lot of different ways people earn money and express themselves professionally. And if, let’s say, you work in the service industry, there is no way you cannot compartmentalize the two. So, as I said, I’m talking about it from a privileged position. 

But I also have allowed a lot of things to happen, which maybe I wouldn’t have allowed now. I have taken upon myself the duty of a fully responsible parent, where all the emotional load is on my shoulders, and it is occasionally too much for me. I think the world has to start changing. Research shows that women do, on average, four to five hours more work during their leisure time compared to men. Yet we compare men and women solely based on their professional performance, completely ignoring that taking care of your family and house is also work. So, the rule that I have applied to myself right now is that everything is work. Everything you do requires a certain amount of effort and some work, which I love. I was just with my daughter in London, she was doing exams at schools. It was hard physically and emotionally.

But it is the work I love and will do because I love my daughter and my professional work. Then there is some work, such as choreography, whether it’s doing laundry or writing reports professionally. But I recognize that everything is work, and these are hours, and this is an effort that you put in. Why it’s important? It’s because sometimes your body requires rest. 

And even if you haven’t been active professionally, but you’ve been torn into pieces in your private life because the holiday season is coming and you have to think of everyone and of everything, then that still means that you’ve put hours of work and your body needs rest and your emotions need rest. So, I guess equalizing that, at least in my life, has helped me a little bit. But as a feminist, I must say that we as a society have to start changing. It’s just unfair to women.

Yeah. I like to reframe the idea of everything being equally important, which not everybody sees because it’s really important. Raising your kids is incredibly important. You’re raising a human being; you are creating a world. Then you have your professional world, where you’re touching millions of lives, and they’re both equally important, or there is no comparison. They’re both things you do that are really important to you, but on different levels, and you can’t quantify what’s more important.

Just you can when you are on the deathbed. I know which will be more important for you. But unfortunately, society doesn’t think of their deathbed. There is a difference. One of those works is being paid for. The other one is being swept under the carpet. One of them is being accounted for in the GDPs of the countries. The other one isn’t. One of them comes with accomplishments and respect. The other one, unfortunately, comes with only the respect of your closest family. 

Even if not, you gave me chills. Unfortunately, there’s a huge injustice when it comes to that. Again, I am in a privileged position because I can afford it. But at least in my universe, I have equalized these two jobs. And just because one is not being paid doesn’t make it less important.

That’s beautiful. What are your three top tips for living a stellar life?

Oh, do the things that you love. Try to stick to that because there’s too much stuff that you have to do, which you’re going to hate. Maybe that very thing that I just said. Remember what will be important on your deathbed. We sometimes live pretending that it’s not coming. And be kind to yourself.

That’s amazing. Where can people find you, find and connect with Mindvalley, take the courses, read your book, and be in contact with you?

My book is on Amazon. I do not think it’s on the shelves anymore because it came out a few years ago. Maybe in India, it’s on the shelves. In India, it came out recently. But on Amazon, you’ll find my book. It’s called Becoming Flawlesome. I am a co-founder of Mindvalley. So you’ll find me in Mindvalley. I’m the host of Mindvalley Book Club. There, you’ll get the nerdiness and introversion of one part of Mindvalley. That’s me. I’m an introverted nerd.

Beautiful. What’s your biggest dream like? Where do you want to see yourself a few years from now?

I actually enjoy myself on this path, so I don’t rush into the few years ahead. I’m quite at peace here currently. But I have a few projects that I really would like to see near their completion. One of them is that I respect my ancestry in a different way. I have an ancestral farm, part of my dad’s family, and its roots trace back to approximately 1632. I’m restoring the farm to become a museum, and there are a lot of land animals that have become a hobby for farmers. This is the one project I would like to see in a more or less completed state. Other than that, I am enjoying the process too much to think about the end of it.

That’s very interesting information about the farm. Well, good luck to you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for being here. I loved our conversation, and I’m sure everybody did, too. I appreciate you.

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. Thank you for making the space so comfortable, warm, and easy to open up.

Thanks, and thank you, listeners. Remember to do the things you love. Remember what is the most important to you, what will be the most important to you on your deathbed. And be kind to yourself. This is Orion, till next time.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

{✓}Don’t waste precious energy maintaining a facade. Instead, embrace your natural tendencies, quirks, and characteristics – even the ones society might label as “flaws.”

{✓}Practice self-kindness first before trying to change the world. How we treat ourselves directly reflects in how we treat others.

{✓}Make healing a daily practice, whether through meditation, journaling, or simple self-reflection. Just as we shower daily to maintain physical cleanliness, emotional healing requires regular attention.

{✓}Release the grip of perfectionism. When you finally let go of that constant strain toward perfection, you might discover you’re capable of more than you imagined.

{✓}Value all forms of work. Whether you’re preparing a business presentation or making dinner for your family, recognize that all effort is valuable work.

{✓}Create life integration, not balance. Look for ways to create symbiosis between different aspects of your life, allowing them to support and enhance each other rather than conflict.

{✓}Develop your intuitive intelligence. While intuition can be a powerful guide, it requires patience and practice to develop. Don’t expect immediate clarity or consistent results. Instead, start small by paying attention to your gut feelings in low-stakes situations.

Master respectful boundaries. Practice saying “no” with grace, and remember that protecting your energy and time is not just self-care – it’s essential for maintaining healthy relationships and professional effectiveness.

Pursue joy, eliminate waste. Review your daily activities and identify what truly brings you joy versus what drains you unnecessarily.

{✓}Live with the end in mind. Make decisions by considering what will matter most at the end of your life.

{✓}Discover Kristina Mand-Lakhiani’s transformative programs and connect with her directly at kristinamand.com. Explore her insights and resources to elevate your personal growth journey or reach out to her for inquiries.

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About Kristina Mand-Lakhiani

Kristina Mand-Lakhiani is the co-founder of Mindvalley, the world’s most powerful life transformation platform with an ever-growing 20 million-strong following. Kristina is an accomplished entrepreneur, bestselling author, sought-after international speaker, talented artist, and committed philanthropist based in Estonia.

Her first book, “Becoming Flawesome,” published by HayHouse in July 2023, instantly became a #1 best-seller on The Wall Street Journal, USA TODAY, Amazon and Barnes & Noble. In her book, Kristina shares her journey from being on top of a personal growth empire like Mindvalley to stepping aside, conscious uncoupling from her husband, and walking her path towards being more honest with herself. Moreover, Kristina holds the distinction of being the inaugural Estonian author to be published by Hay House and to attain #1 Best-Seller status in the US.

As the author of transformational programs—”7 Days to Happiness,” “Live By Your Own Rules,” “10 Questions for Self-Love,” and “From Awesome to Flawesome,” Kristina has touched the lives of over 20,000 students with wisdom, life hacks, and healthy habit-building formulas curated and inspired by her 20+ years in the personal growth industry. She hosts her podcast, Honest Conversations, and has interviewed over 300 specialists in the field of psychology and self-development.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Orion Talmay, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.